A common situation....... - Page 3

Grisgra · #21 06-30-2005, 10:59 PM

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Its a ratio, so for someone who is very loose and spends alot of time calling, they also have to do a fair amount of betting and raising to counter all that and keep their AF at 1.

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But this guy's VPIP is less than 40%. Hell, it's only a few percentage points above mine [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

PokerBob · #22 06-30-2005, 11:02 PM

I agree with you. It seems that more often than not, I am shown a better hand (I am NOT saying that is what happened here). Whether or not this is a function of me running bad over the last 30K hands here, I don't know. But I raised pf, there is a K on the board, and this guy doesn't care. IMO that says, "I can beat your friggin K".

Grisgra · #23 06-30-2005, 11:10 PM

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I agree with you. It seems that more often than not, I am shown a better hand (I am NOT saying that is what happened here). Whether or not this is a function of me running bad over the last 30K hands here, I don't know. But I raised pf, there is a K on the board, and this guy doesn't care. IMO that says, "I can beat your friggin K".

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Absolutely. You're getting 3.5:1 to call this down. Do you pull this in 25% of the time? I don't think that 1/4 of the time this is a semibluff that doesn't come through/a weaker king/a total bluff/you counterfeit his two-pair. I just don't. Maybe 1/5, maybe 1/6. I think 1/6th at best.

Maybe you called down and won it, that's certainly possible. But I'm telling you, learning to fold good hands against passive players putting in raises on big streets is a necessary but very tough skill to learn.

And then unlearn, when you move to 10/20 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

w_alloy · #24 06-30-2005, 11:25 PM

Do you remember your history with this player at all? I often see this play used (they wait tell turn to raise top pair) even by semi-passives when I have been auto-betting the flop and turn recently, especially when i have been caught missing and fold or show down a weak hand.

Grisgra · #25 07-01-2005, 06:13 PM

are we gonna get any results? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

PokerBob · #26 07-01-2005, 07:35 PM

I got railed for posting results, but since you asked.....

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero .....I called.

River: I don't remember but it was nothing exciting.

He had 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHING.

Grisgra · #27 07-02-2005, 03:50 AM

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I got railed for posting results, but since you asked.....

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Posting results a day after you post the question is bad. Posting results a day after the replies have dried up, is good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Obviously, your results don't prove my point, but I ain't surprised. I think that it's very possible one that if one crunch the math properly here that it *may* be the case you have odds to call the turn raise but fold unimproved on the river. (Probably not in this small a pot, but maybe in a bigger pot.)

And to those of you who never even *considered* a fold here: Ick.

sthief09 · #28 07-02-2005, 03:51 AM

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And to those of you who never even *considered* a fold here: Ick.

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I'm a lot closer to a 3-bet than a fold, but I don't *consider* either against an unknown. folding here against an unknown is pathetically weak tight. you'll see top pair a lot here

Grisgra · #29 07-02-2005, 03:57 AM

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And to those of you who never even *considered* a fold here: Ick.

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I'm a lot closer to a 3-bet than a fold, but I don't *consider* either against an unknown. folding here against an unknown is pathetically weak tight. you'll see top pair a lot here

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Been awhile since you've played 5/10, eh, sthief? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

At 10/20 this is close to a 3-bet. At 5/10 this is close to a fold, or is just a plain fold. This guy may donkbet with top pair-okay-kicker, but it's just plain unlikely that he's calling the flop and raising the turn with it. Just really, really rare.

Lmn55d · #30 07-02-2005, 04:09 AM

Maybe it once was, but the 5/10 really isn't that passive anyamore.