Daily Hand Post: interesting AK hand

[Jules22]

if you "know" the button is going to bet, i agree its fine to check raise on the flop. however, all i saw was the read was "aggressive". this hand is tough, jasont prolly played it better than i would have because i suck :|

[cnfuzzd]

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Congradulations to find new and exciting ways to lose money with ace high.

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Congrats on being a complete and total f[/i]ucktard....

peace

john nickle

[scrub]

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1 - I cap preflop. With this many players you're giving up equity by not capping with AKo.

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While there was some nice discussion about the postflop play, this is what the discussion in IRC was centred around. I think that sometimes it's okay to pass up a preflop equity edge with AK, especially OOP against this 3-bettor, in order to try to exploit an edge postflop.

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Given the weird way that the flop played out, you got the chance to make an opportunistic checkraise--good for you.

The hand doesn't usually play out this way, however. Most of the time, you're going to find yourself out of position against a 3-bettor with a hand that announces itself when it hits the board, and you're going to have trouble making up for the preflop money you missed the times that your hand is best.

scrub

[scrub]

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First, my opinion of the way Jason played this hand post flop is absolutely perfect.

I did initially have issues with his not capping preflop with AKo. This was before i knew MPs stats. However, even with him being a virtua-rock, i think a preflop cap is in order, for a couple of reasons.

1) Even considering what the rock is raising with, i think you have a very large equity edge with two other players in. Your hand plays fairly well considering the opposition, and im going to start building the pot now.

2) Jasons reasons for not capping consisted of being able to better protect your hand postflop. However, this is fallacious. He was initially planning on checkraising the flop agaisnt the rock to blow out some players. Not only do i now really see this happening since UTG has already called two cold, not to mention button calling 3, but these players also seem like the kind of players who are going to call down with any decent piece of the flop. To boot, you are going to be checkraising the one person who is *most likely* to have you beat, based on our pt reads. So you are not only hoping to kill what is most likely dead money in the pot, but you are hoping to do so against someone you know to be very tight, meaning they have a good hand and are unlikely to give you much action once they think they are beat. Not to mention that a checkraise on the flop rarely gets MP to fold a better hand. though you may occasionally get them to fold an unimproved AK.

It also seems that this supposition is based on playing an unimproved AK. However, i dont think you are making tons of money off of AK in this hand without improving. Assuming you dont improve on the flop, you still have odds to call in hopes of hitting on the turn, however, the chances that you want the other players to fold seems slim. Unless one of the players is holding A-rag, and pairs thier rag, and would fold to a checkraise, AND MP is playing something like QQ, you are probably better served by gaining the bets preflop, and leaving them drawing very thin for the rest of the hand.

As it turned out, jason was perfectly able to narrow the field so that his A high is facing a player against whom his hand is good. But again, what unfolded was such an unlikely scenario that to say he planned it preflop is a bit much. Moreover, when MP does check, its very likely that he is holding some hand that Jason has dominated, and missed collecting bets against preflop....

peace

john nickle

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If I had read this first, I probably wouldn't have posted.

scrub

[Guruman]

help me with the turn here:

Everyone seems to be assuming that villain is behind here, but couldnt that flop have hit him given how looooooose he is? Anyone think he could cold-call three preflop with a pp?

I don't necesarily disagree with the bet, I'd just like a little more info on the rest of the plan. What's the line if he three bets the turn? What's the river look like?

[toss]

Button's aggression numbers implies that he'll often bet with a draw here or less. Enough to make Hero's play profitable.

[stokken]

1. It would be intersting to know how u thought the board was persiving u, before u conducted what in retrospect was sucsessfull isolation play to get hu. Also interesting is your definition of the table as a whole, how often do the players cold call and overcall raises and 3 bets? What kind of hands have been shown down in raised pots earlier an how many go to showdown?
a) MP2`s range or raising hands AA-TT, AKs and os, AQs more or less. 3 ways to make AA, 3 to KK , 9 to AK, 3 to AQs, and 6 each to the remaining pairs.
b) UTG1 possibly any suited, any connector, and 1 gaps, A-x, maybe K-9, any pair.
c)Button is possibly in there with some suit or pair, calling due to position? Lets say he is somewhere inbetween the range.

Your postflopp play then might represent something like this: you are ahead or tied with MP2 in 12 out the 36 hands he might have, being a rock I would not rule out anything quite because of a check, except AA-KK perhaps.

UTG1 could be on a flush draw, str8 draw, set or one or two paired.. If flush draw u might redraw some so say he is entitled to 25%-28% of the pot if these are combined. If he has a set spiked you need a runner-runner and are trailing way behind.Also he could have overcards. But his check is more likely to represent a draw.

The button could be on the same range

For utg1 and mp2 it is also the possibility of wanting to wait for the more expensive turn.

So the play: For it to be profitable, u draw out and win 8% of the time, u win unimproved maybe 8% of the time. So the remaining 35% has to be made out of pure bluff and counting on only 1 caller. And that is then a really small profit, your bluff and needing 1 caller percentage who u can draw out on or be ahead of until end is quite higher
This is just seeing the remaining of the hand as a large bet, assuming your action is c/f if multiple callers on the raise and unimproved on turn, or if raised on turnbet hu.And of course to a reraise on the flopp

I really cant see this play as anything but haemoraghing money