Money and limits

[pzhon]

The 300BB guideline assumes several things:

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] You are assumed to be a solid winner.
I doubt you have the experience to know this. If you are not a winning player, you will burn through any bankroll. If you win at a lower rate than was assumed (e.g., if you are a winner, but are playing in a tough game with fewer fish), you need a larger bankroll.

If you are playing in very soft microlimit games, particularly those with no rake, or you are receiving a bonus, your win rate may be 2-4 times as great as the normal win rate assumed. Then you don't need 300 BB.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] You will never move down.
If you are willing to move down if you hit a bad streak, you don't need 300 BB.

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Your bankroll can't be replaced.
If losing all of the money you have set aside will be annoying, but you will make another deposit in a couple of months, you don't need 300 BB. Your real bankroll is larger than your balance. On the other hand, if you know you will have to withdraw money soon, your real bankroll may be smaller than your balance.


Your main concern at this stage should be to work on your skills, but if your main interest is money, you should look at poker bonuses. You probably have the bankroll to pursue the Cryptologic bonuses, particularly Interpoker's, since that can be cleared at $0.25-$0.50 and $0.50-$1.00, and is worth $90/month. Bonuses are the fastest way to build your bankroll from about $200 to $2000.

[pokerstudAA]

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For example my raises are better respected and I don't get drawn out as much.


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Heard one this before.....nearly always from losing or poor players. No offense.

[NickPoker]

My bankroll is in the 8K range, and I still hunt around for bonuses, I have made alomst $500 this month on just bonuses. Party poker's monthly reload bonus is an easy $100-$150 a month. You can clear the bonus on the $.50-$1 tables.

[pzhon]

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Bonuses are the fastest way to build your bankroll from about $200 to $2000.

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My bankroll is in the 8K range, and I still hunt around for bonuses, I have made alomst $500 this month on just bonuses.

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To clarify, I agree that free money is always good. I've cleared about $5k in poker bonuses so far this year; I'm a big fan of them. However, once you have the skills and a larger bankroll, you should make more money from playing poker than from the poker bonuses. Bonuses are nice, but they probably won't be adding 6 BB/100 to your win rate, as several Cryptologic bonuses do if you play $1-$2.

[NickPoker]

Agreed, just pointing out that bonuses are always a nice supplement to a bankroll. There are so many offered now, that if you are going to play online anyway you mine as well take advantage of the bonuses. They definately can help some one trying to build a bankroll at the lower levels.

[GoodTiMes]

Play 3 or 4 tables of $25 nl. The key is moving up very very slowly and knowing when to switch limits. Bankroll management is maybe the most underrated facet of poker.

If you move up too fast its almost impossible to go broke. Here is a metaphor.

If I have pocket aces every time and my stack is 1k but I'm playing a stack of a million and I cant leave the table and I go all in pre flop every single time, its impossible for me not go broke. I can double ten times in a row but my efforts will be futile.

If you move up too fast, you'll eventually have an extremely lucky swing and if that one swing can cripple you, you are broke. So mark my words, move up very very slowly.

When you turn that $700 into 3k go to 3 or 4 tables of $50 nl. Then when you have 6k, go to $100 and so on.

[Roy__Batty]

i'm not a limit player but that won't make any difference here.
I've programmed the calculation of the risk of going banrupt given the winrate, the std deviation of the win rate, the starting bankroll and the number of hands that will be played.
As i don't play limit, the win rate/std deviation may be not so realistic.
So, with a 300 PTBB starting roll, a win rate of 2 PTBB/100hands, a standard devation of 20 PTBB/100hands, you expect to play 50,000 hands.
My calculations give an estimate of 2.6% for your risk of going bankrupt during these 50,000 hands (note that, if u had infinite bankroll, you woudl have 0.2% of losing money at the hand of the 50,000 hands sequence).
So, yes, the 300BB starting roll is a very secure proposition.
I'm gonna put my algorithm online in the next days so that people can have an idea of what they need with their own figures (meanwhile you can PM me or post it to get the results for your figures)

[jba]

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Good tip, I never thought of "marking" these type of players. by putting them on a list!

And you are right we DO want these players in the pot w/ their crappy hands. It just sucks when they hit.

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it DOESN'T suck when they hit if you understand what's going on and you play enough hands.

if your opponent is a 9-1 underdog and you play him 10,000 times he WILL hit his hand 1,000 times. Those 1,000 times DO NOT SUCK as long as you're only laying him 8-1 on his chance. If your opponents will ONLY try to hit their longshots with proper pot odds you are in a VERY BAD GAME! you are guaranteed to lose money in that game in the long run (you will make mistakes, and you will get raked).

this is pretty much the most important concept in poker, btw.

play a lot more poker and you will stop caring so much.

[MrStretchie]

Also ready SSHE and learn about value betting, the counter to 'raises not being respected'.

[joop]

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I have $700. At what table (limit) should I be playing with this bankroll?

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Your bankroll has nothing to do with the limit you should be playing. The limit you should be playing is determined by your skill level. If you're not sure of your skill level, start at the lowest limit tables and slowly work your way up.