am i too tight? was this good QQ preflop laydown? (party $20+2)

[jcm4ccc]

For those who say push, what do you put tecf1fan on? I put him on QQ-AA, AK. QQ is extremely unlikely, of course. AK seems pretty unlikely also.

Sharpies is going to call tec1fan's bet. Tec1fan knows this and doesn't care. Tec1fan is betting 40% of his chips and doesn't want a fold. What the hell else can he have, unless he is playing some serious mind games?

[gisb0rne]

[ QUOTE ]
What the hell else can he have, unless he is playing some serious mind games?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or sucks. At 20+2 that's not unlikely.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What the hell else can he have, unless he is playing some serious mind games?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or sucks. At 20+2 that's not unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but they suck in predictable ways. Limping too much. Going all-in with top pair, poor kicker. Calling draws when they don't have the odds. I've never, to my memory, seen a fish make this kind of play with a hand that is dominated by QQ.

[eMarkM]

Here's a hand I had in a 55 just yesterday. This is the 3rd hand (and already a man down). This kind of insanity is common enough at the 55s, I imagine it's more so at the 22s. I couldn't fold ladies in this spot and if they have AA/KK or I lose a race to AK, so be it. I'm getting my money in.

NL Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:13289994 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Tuesday, June 21, 17:01:21 EDT 2005
Table Table 14036 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: eMarkM ( $1000 )
Seat 2: Jason10 ( $1000 )
Seat 4: GoldenPig99 ( $2040 )
Seat 5: ElektricEel ( $960 )
Seat 6: UziRow ( $1105 )
Seat 7: zachary1334 ( $985 )
Seat 8: 2ndBase13 ( $925 )
Seat 9: Languid ( $1000 )
Seat 10: YERJO97 ( $985 )
Trny:13289994 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to eMarkM [ Ac As ]
desbcoach: dumbass
Languid folds.
YERJO97 raises [55].
>You have options at Deadly dealers Table!.
eMarkM raises [150].
Jason10 is all-In [1000]
GoldenPig99 folds.
ElektricEel folds.
UziRow folds.
zachary1334 folds.
2ndBase13 folds.
desbcoach: gets lucky
YERJO97 is all-In [930]
eMarkM is all-In [850]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 5s, 3d ]
GoldenPig99: __//)\\___
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
eMarkM shows [ Ac, As ] two pairs, aces and fives.
Jason10 shows [ 8c, 8d ] two pairs, eights and fives.
YERJO97 shows [ Ad, Ks ] two pairs, kings and fives.
eMarkM wins 30 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and fives.
eMarkM wins 2980 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and fives.
YERJO97 finished in ninth place.
Jason10 finished in eighth place.
>You have options at Table 15637 Table!.
wow
Jason10 has left the table.
YERJO97 has left the table.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who say push, what do you put tecf1fan on?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a bunch of people are arguing against giving your oppenents too much credit at the 22s.
I play the 33s, and I see situations like this that turn out to be Ax suited and 66 fairly frequently. The reality is that there are a ton of crappy players that cannot be put on a hand because they have no idea what a hand is.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Don't lay QQ down pre-flop at a 22.

[/ QUOTE ]
How about KK?
If its level 1?



[/ QUOTE ]

My remark may come across as a bit sardonic, but its not
meant to be. I recently posted a hand with KK level 1.

The reason why my KK hand and also the original posters QQ
hand are interesting to me is that there appears to be
a contradiction between the advice given by some ("whaddya nuts??? PUSH!!") and the recent spate of statistics posts.
In several of these posts (".....I played 500 109's and here
are my stats", etc) The one thing that struck me was the
extremely low percentage of 10th and 9th place finishes. I
think that there were 3 of these pòsts where the combined
9th and 10th place finishes was < 5%. This struck me as
very very low.

So I wondered.....what are these posters doing with KK and QQ and JJ preflop? Do they fold immediately to a reraise?
If not, then I see no way that they can get their combined
10th and 9th place finishes below 6%.

At about the same time, there was a stats post from a newbie
seeking to improve his game where his combined 10th and 9th
finishes were around 18 or 20%. Everyone pointed out that
this was way too high, and suggested he tighten up quite
a bit. OK, fine....but 5%?

So how do you reconcile the 5% figures with the advice to
push QQ. This push, by the way, is in the face of a 4BB
prefop raise, followed by a second 4BB reraise. If I were
in OP's situation I would seriously consider laying this one
down, like he did.

I'm not sure thats the right play, but I am sure that pushing
here is inconsistent with the stats of some winning players
that have recently been posted here. And I wonder how the
proponents of push reconcile the two?

Suerte,
Jonathan

[dfoote]

I didn't play all that many $22s, but I saw this kind of action more than once where the villains had hands like 88 and AJo. I would grit my teeth and push.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a hand I had in a 55 just yesterday. This is the 3rd hand (and already a man down). This kind of insanity is common enough at the 55s, I imagine it's more so at the 22s. I couldn't fold ladies in this spot and if they have AA/KK or I lose a race to AK, so be it. I'm getting my money in.

NL Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:13289994 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Tuesday, June 21, 17:01:21 EDT 2005
Table Table 14036 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: eMarkM ( $1000 )
Seat 2: Jason10 ( $1000 )
Seat 4: GoldenPig99 ( $2040 )
Seat 5: ElektricEel ( $960 )
Seat 6: UziRow ( $1105 )
Seat 7: zachary1334 ( $985 )
Seat 8: 2ndBase13 ( $925 )
Seat 9: Languid ( $1000 )
Seat 10: YERJO97 ( $985 )
Trny:13289994 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to eMarkM [ Ac As ]
desbcoach: dumbass
Languid folds.
YERJO97 raises [55].
>You have options at Deadly dealers Table!.
eMarkM raises [150].
Jason10 is all-In [1000]
GoldenPig99 folds.
ElektricEel folds.
UziRow folds.
zachary1334 folds.
2ndBase13 folds.
desbcoach: gets lucky
YERJO97 is all-In [930]
eMarkM is all-In [850]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 5s, 3d ]
GoldenPig99: __//)\\___
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
eMarkM shows [ Ac, As ] two pairs, aces and fives.
Jason10 shows [ 8c, 8d ] two pairs, eights and fives.
YERJO97 shows [ Ad, Ks ] two pairs, kings and fives.
eMarkM wins 30 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and fives.
eMarkM wins 2980 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and fives.
YERJO97 finished in ninth place.
Jason10 finished in eighth place.
>You have options at Table 15637 Table!.
wow
Jason10 has left the table.
YERJO97 has left the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not even close to the same situation. Jason10 could have reasonably expected a fold. I see people call all-ins with all sorts of crap.

What I'm saying is that it's not good enough to just say "oh, the fish are dumb, they'll make any kind of stupid play." That's not true at all. They are fairly predictable in the kind of stupid plays that they make. The raise by tec1fan does not fall into the category of "typical stupid fish plays" at all. Not even close.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]

This is not even close to the same situation. Jason10 could have reasonably expected a fold. I see people call all-ins with all sorts of crap.

What I'm saying is that it's not good enough to just say "oh, the fish are dumb, they'll make any kind of stupid play." That's not true at all. They are fairly predictable in the kind of stupid plays that they make. The raise by tec1fan does not fall into the category of "typical stupid fish plays" at all. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

People call all-in w/ crap, but people bet/raise/push w/ worse crap more often than the crap they call with...

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is not even close to the same situation. Jason10 could have reasonably expected a fold. I see people call all-ins with all sorts of crap.

What I'm saying is that it's not good enough to just say "oh, the fish are dumb, they'll make any kind of stupid play." That's not true at all. They are fairly predictable in the kind of stupid plays that they make. The raise by tec1fan does not fall into the category of "typical stupid fish plays" at all. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

People call all-in w/ crap, but people bet/raise/push w/ worse crap more often than the crap they call with...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they push with all sorts of crap, and sometimes are right to do so. This is so different from this.