Short stack play in the Party NL 2000

[KaneKungFu123]

thats why they get paid off well, because 75% of short stacks are donks.

when i see a short stack limp in MP with QQ, the game is over, i make a note that he is Tight Short, and he wont get paid in marginal situations.

But when i go against an unknown short stack ill give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a donk.

i dont see you making more then one or two BB's/hour.

look at how much you are giving up with 22-JJ.

[fimbulwinter]

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its profitable, but youll need to change names often.

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Can you elaborate?

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people in that big a game with a shallow player pool keep book. your jig is up real quick like.

fim

[BluffTHIS!]

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The biggest factor in determining how much money you make as a short stack in a game like this is how active the game is. I think shortstack strategy works a lot better in a game like the commerce 10/20 (at least from how I hear how that game plays) than online. From what I've seen, a lot of the 5/10 - 10/20 games online are more rockish then they are crazy action...

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This issue, that of game selection, is the most important post in this thread and is the most important factor in how much you can make with any given stack size.

[Lalit Khajuria]

Well said AZK. This is something I have thought a bit lately, but haven't tried this startegy even once.
I mean personally my biggest problems(and misstakes) come in start of the session when im not in my A-game, but more like in C-game. So what I have thought is that in beginning of session, I would in future buyin for lets say 30bb. And when im getting into my A-game I will add my stack up to the max 100bb, either by winning or just bringing more.
Also personally I play much better while winning, so it's important for me to get a good start for the session otherwise I will play bad.

Cant really see down sides of this strategy, except occassionally missing value.

[the 9]

I would have to agree 75% of these shorties are donks who are looking to get lucky and run when they double up....v annoying.

I have a reasonable amount of experience short buying and I can beat the 5/10 on Prima for about 4PTBB/100.
If you treat it like a different game it's actually quite easy - my normal VPIP is 25/8, shortbuying on 5/10 is more like 15/10

I have tried and tested conditions for playing this way, I won't bother trying to explain them all but generally the best time to do it is on a loose-ish table with everyone else above 100BB stacks. Other short stacks tend to get in the way and change the game as previously mentioned by another poster.

Also what you buy in for is very important, there is a huge difference in play with a 20BB stack and a 50BB stack.
There are many more factors I consider with table selection too, much more so than if I sit on a random 2/4 for 100BB.

I'm not going to kid myself though - I may have doubled through various very good players on Prima but I'm under no illusion I could outplay them at equal stacks, it's just that I'm playing a different game to them.

[Marlow]

Not to rock the boat, but I applaud you. The fact that you buy in short and are that annoying rookie hit-and-run guy is not going to be popular here. I think it takes some balls to post what you have on this forum that prides itself on cultivation of premium skills. FWIW, I think this kind of attitude will translate well at the table.

Also, you'll probably learn a lot more at the bigger buy-in table (if you are willing to focus) than you would at the lower levels. So hell, if you can find a formula that works for you - go for it. I doubt, however, that anyone here will tell you that it's a good idea...

Marlow
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[LuvDemNutz]

I agree with AZK that this ($500) is TOO short for that game.

For giggles, I tried this the other day in the $2000NL game.

I bought in for $600 and every time I dropped below $540 I would bump it back up to $600.

I played only 55 hands so of course this a tiny sample size. I only VPIPed twice - once to call a $60 raise with 66 and once to call a $70 raise with AKo. Both times the flop missed me.

All told I lost ~$350 - due to paying the blinds for 5-6 orbits and not getting any playable cards.

I guess the point is that buying in THIS short you need to double up once every few orbits or the blinds and raised pots where you check/fold will eat you up.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Unless there were a few callers in front, you should have folded the 66 hand.

[Ed Miller]

Hi,

I've never played the Party $2,000 game. I've never played any no-limit game on Party. So I'm guessing. But my guess would be like one or two big blinds per hour... that is, profitable, but just marginally so.

Here's my take. There are very few FULL (9- or 10-handed) NL games in the world where this strategy, played properly, would not be profitable long-term. This is essentially regardless of stakes and true both B&M and online.

I don't think it matters whether some of your opponents know more or less what you are doing or not... though obviously if they know you won't do as well. People play loose with big stacks, and those people will get caught with money in the pot when you show up with pocket kings. It's their tendency to play loosely in general that will make you the money... even if they know to tighten up against you.

The bigger you play, though, the "better" you will have to play this strategy to make it work. I intentionally left out some details to give the reader some things to explore. If you want to make money in big games doing this (and I think real money can indeed be made with relatively little poker skill) then you need to get some of the "details" right. Particularly, you will still sometimes have some tricky decisions on the flop.

One thing I know for sure is that playing this way won't make you any friends. Your opponents will view it as "cheap" or "dumb" or "donkish" or "lame" or whatever. I obviously don't view it as any of these. If you can make money waltzing into a big game with a tiny stack, that's a problem with the game, not the player.

[bkholdem]

So all a winning low limit NL 4 tabler needs is a bankroll of 10grand or so to significantly increase his income playing a dumbed down version of the way he currently plays? Or find a backer who wants to make another grand or so a week on a 50-50 deal... haha