Smartest man who ever lived?

[GrekeHaus]

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I don't believe that genetically equivalent = equally intelligent. My understanding of neurology is nearly nonexistent, but I'm reasonably sure that it is not the case that our neural pathways form independent of the stimulation that we receive. Also, a lifetime of malnourishment probably has dire consequences on these sorts of things. So I'm not interested in potential at birth, but what you actually become, and consequently, I think we really only have to consider the relatively small fraction of people who are in position to contend. It's kind of tautological.

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Ahh... I was going more along the lines of inherent ability, rather than realized ability.

But, I would say that if we are looking at only realized ability, it is far more likely that we know this person's name.

But, I still have no way to estimate a range for that probability. Anyone wanna take a shot at it?

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First off, how did you get that sweet title?

Second, I would wager that even if you were to talk about inherent ability, we would still know the person's name for a couple of reasons:

1. A person who is gifted in a given area is likely to gravitate towards that area. If a person is 7-feet time and has a good jump shot, it's quite likely that they'll find their way into the basketball system somewhere and eventually make it to the NBA. A person who is extremely smart will likely find an area in which he/she excels and will find plenty of ample opportunities to advance to the top of their field and make a name for themself.

2. Intelligence is largely genetic and people practice selective mating. In America for instance, a lot of people meet their future spouses at college. Since these people both went to college, they are (generally speaking) above average intelligence. When they mate, it is quite likely that their children will also be above average.

In general, somebody who is extremely smart will likely not want to marry someone else unless that person also has far above average intelligence. Since the pools of people to pick from in a large country are so large, they will frequently be able to find such a person. They will then be able to have children with this person and their children are then also likely to be extremely gifted, and possibly more gifted than their parents. A genius who lives in a small village for his entire life will often not be able to find someone who is at or near the same level of intelligence as him and therefore, his offspring are not as likely to be the smartest person who ever lived as the two people who live in a major country.

This is by no means a proof, but more of a probabalistic argument.

[bholdr]

choosing a 'smartest' person in history is tough for a whole lot of obvious reasons, primarily because the very term 'smart' is a subjective one, unless one uses a universal measure like IQ (which hasn't been around and isn't particularily accurate, imo). but i'll go ahead and throw out a few names:

Motzart
J.S. Bach
Voltaire
Sun Tzu

all 'smart' talk aside, i believe that the highly educated person in history was easily John Stuart Mill. form the forward of my edition of 'on liberty':

"By the time he was eight he knew everything that a doctor of philosophy knows nowadays"

geez! eight?

also, i remember reading about an indian man that, with zero formal training in mathematics, and only an old algebra textbook to work with, extrapolated mathematical theroy all the way up to some very advanced calculus... i don't remember his name, but i belive he did the bulk of his work in the latter half of the last century.

[fluff]

Anurag Dikshit

[CallMeIshmael]

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First off, how did you get that sweet title?

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Jason_t and Rmarotti convinced GoT to change it. And, no money was transfered!!


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Second, I would wager that even if you were to talk about inherent ability, we would still know the person's name for a couple of reasons:

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Before you go any further. Right now, estimate how many people you know existed. That is, think of the number of people whose name you know, and, say, where/when they lived (or around about).

Now, think of how many people have ever existed.

Now, think of how small the first number / second number is. Pretty small, huh?

The fact that that number is SOOO small, means you have to overcome a lot. And, simply put, its impossible.

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1. A person who is gifted in a given area is likely to gravitate towards that area. If a person is 7-feet time and has a good jump shot, it's quite likely that they'll find their way into the basketball system somewhere and eventually make it to the NBA. A person who is extremely smart will likely find an area in which he/she excels and will find plenty of ample opportunities to advance to the top of their field and make a name for themself.

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No.

Basketball statement should have looked more like:

This person is 7 feet tall, has a great jump shot, and lived in an area of the world where basketball was played and was introduced into basketball and encouraged to play basketball when he was young.

I mean... think about it: how many people who have ever lived even know what basketball IS. 5 billion has to be too large, but erring on your side is fine. Now, take that same number of the total all time human population. And figure out A/B again.

Do you really think its likely that the most genetically capable basketball player to EVER lived actually:

- Was alive since the introduction of basketball
- Was introduced to it
- Took up and interest in it, and continued to play it???


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2. Intelligence is largely genetic and people practice selective mating. In America for instance, a lot of people meet their future spouses at college. Since these people both went to college, they are (generally speaking) above average intelligence. When they mate, it is quite likely that their children will also be above average. In general, somebody who is extremely smart will likely not want to marry someone else unless that person also has far above average intelligence. Since the pools of people to pick from in a large country are so large, they will frequently be able to find such a person. They will then be able to have children with this person and their children are then also likely to be extremely gifted, and possibly more gifted than their parents. A genius who lives in a small village for his entire life will often not be able to find someone who is at or near the same level of intelligence as him and therefore, his offspring are not as likely to be the smartest person who ever lived as the two people who live in a major country.


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Im not really sure what this is trying to say.

But... the most intelligent people that we have examples for, are certainly not necessarily the result of the mating of who people of incredible intellect.


Also... fwiw, keep in mind that a vast majority of all people lived before college was widespread. Its not like it was that easy to discover supreme intelligence 2000 years ago.



EDIT: Anyone have a decent estimate for the number of people who have ever lived? I know, given the exponential growth pattern of the human pop in recent time, the living should represent a non trivial chunk of it.

[miajag81]

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Gauss.

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[PairTheBoard]

Nicole Kidman

PTB

[Phoenix1010]

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I say Leibniz.

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Good choice. My first thought before opening the thread.

[Triumph36]

Genetically capable has nothing to do with it. Intelligence is expressed in language, whether it be words, mathematical symbols, music, etc. Therefore, without a written language or complicated spoken language, I see it as very unlikely that many people would arise who we would call 'geniuses' outside of those who have existed in societies with writing, because quite simply they would not have the ability to express genius-level thoughts in strictly functional languages.

I'd go with Leibniz or Gauss. Leibniz because he wrote the Discourse on Metaphysics when 'he had a few days to spare', Gauss because he invented non-Euclidian geometry at 18..and many other achievements for both of them, of course.

[morello]

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Pretty sure it's David Sklansky.

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No, it's Sklansky's father. Remember, when Sklansky did his "smartest people ever" list, he specifically said "I am excluding my father from this list", which was a clear sign that Einstein et al were no match for him.

[morello]

Surprised to see only one person mentioned Shakespeare. While the other guys certainly were accomplished in math/physics areas, it is quite likely that their discoveries were only a matter of time from happening.