Tough flop decision - Page 3

durron597 · #21 06-10-2005, 03:37 PM

Results: I tanked forever and decided that I wasn't totally crippled if I called an lost, and that he really didn't need to have much to do this, and that if he had a really strong hand he probably would have called and tried to extract more chips out of me. So I called. I got three separate "Wow, great call"s, I wasn't sure if they were sarcastic or not.

After this pot I basically only stole blinds for the next 60 hands except for one pot where I busted a player with 8k chips who raised on the button and I came over the top in the BB with KK. I finished the tournament with 42,000 chips and in second place.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (7 handed) converter

Hero (t14455)
BB (t12155)
UTG (t11450)
MP1 (t5010)
MP2 (t8785)
CO (t1425)
Button (t10933)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, Button raises to t1600, Hero calls t1400, 1 fold.

Flop: (t3150) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t2400, Button raises to t9308, Hero calls t6908.

Turn: (t21766) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t21766) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t21766

Results:
Hero has Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (one pair, queens).
Button has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins t21766.

Lloyd · #22 06-10-2005, 03:51 PM

Especially given you're read of him and how you've been playing, I'd put him on a pretty wide range of hands: AA-JJ, AK-AT, KQ-KT, QJ-QT, JT. I could easily see him making this move with a draw or middle pair / draw. He could be bluffing as well. But just against that range you're a 55/45 dog which makes the call a no-brainer.

What about a check-raise line? If you checked he'd probably be the one making a pot size bet and you could put him all-in. It's tough for you to just lead out with a push because that looks like an overbet draw. But a check-raise seems pretty strong.

And don't forget, even if you lose you've got 3500 left. While shortstacked it's certainly enough to come back if you play well and catch some cards.

On the flop call, I certainly don't mind it. He could be on a blind steal and calling with KQ is safe. I would be inclined to push pre-flop if he had tried to blind steal in the past. You've got to think against the range of hands he could be raising with you're ahead. But given that you called, what better flop are you looking for to get all your chips in the middle. Certainly you're not waiting for trips or a two pair and top pair good kicker with a backdoor straight draw is a pretty strong holding.

durron597 · #23 06-10-2005, 03:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What about a check-raise line? If you checked he'd probably be the one making a pot size bet and you could put him all-in. It's tough for you to just lead out with a push because that looks like an overbet draw. But a check-raise seems pretty strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My problem with a check-raise line is, what do I do if he openpushes or checks behind and a bad card hits the turn?

Lloyd · #24 06-10-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about a check-raise line? If you checked he'd probably be the one making a pot size bet and you could put him all-in. It's tough for you to just lead out with a push because that looks like an overbet draw. But a check-raise seems pretty strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My problem with a check-raise line is, what do I do if he openpushes or checks behind and a bad card hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
If he open pushes it's not much different of a decision than if you bet and he pushes. Yes, the odds are a bit worse but I'd still put him on the same range of hands possibly with a greater likelihood of a bluff or weaker holding. You'd still have odds to call.

If he checks behind, well you're getting some good information. What strong hand could he have and not make some type of bet on the flop with so many draws? Take a look at the turn and act from there. And if it's a scary card for you, it might be a scary card for him and go check-check. If he pushes, I'm more inclined to narrow the range and fold. But again, you've got good information from the check and the card to come might have actually improved your hand.

Lloyd · #25 06-10-2005, 04:02 PM

I'm glad this wasn't a bad beat story, or one where in hindsight you made a bad decision. Trust your instincts. You thought about this hand, put him on a range, and made the right call. You were rewarded by your decision. Nice job. Now start preparing for the ME!!!

adanthar · #26 06-10-2005, 09:45 PM

If I CR'd this I would be pushing.

[ QUOTE ]
My problem with a check-raise line is, what do I do if he openpushes or checks behind and a bad card hits the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn card is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], okay, he can buy the pot. If it's reasonably better, I think I have the best hand now so bet him off it since it's a sat. If he open pushes, do some math.