Harrington likes the PVS!!

[gumpzilla]

I just thought it was worth pointing out (since people are taking this more seriously than I anticipated or believed it was written in) that Harrington is talking about raising, NOT pushing, in deeper stacked online tournaments with a pretty good but not amazing hand early. This is about as far from a PVS as you can get other than folding.

[The once and future king]

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Phoenix said he invented it

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Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[The Yugoslavian]

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For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

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Yes, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is going crazy b/c of these posted hands.

Damn, I was always hoping I could have a move named after me, but now I think I'd just end up hanging myself on that noose after reading thread after thread completely f*ckin it all up.

Yugoslav

[byronkincaid]

PVS?

[The Yugoslavian]

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Phoenix said he invented it

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Well, even he knows that's not true. I know for a fact Irie has been 'in the know' about the move for a long, long time (and the concepts behind the move for...well, I was probably in junior high then). I'd imagine just about any expert STT player has been using it for a long time (Strassa, PM, ZJ, etc)...it was never necessary for them to think about it in terms of being a specific tactic.

The reason it's named after PVS (in my mind) is he's the first one who started talking about specific situations in relatively early levels where FE was higher than most people realized (and risk/reward could be favorable to the player). The specific tactic hadn't really been called out on this forum in such a direct and specific manner (altho I'd love it if The Shadow proved me wrong here).

Really all it is, is a nifty/fancy/tricky way to seize upon hard to see FE (the concept of which has been hashed out in 'unique' ways to STT theory from pretty much the beginning of this forum).

Yugoslav
PS While that Harrington example doesn't demonstrate it....I'd imagine his 2nd book will contain at least one fairly close example of it (as the final shorthanded tables of a big MTT tournament start to become more like STTs).

[citanul]

jesus people, no one who actively participates in this forum "invented" the pvs. someone is responsible for coining the name, that's all. looks like i'm going to have to make an addition to the faq though.

to the OP who is trying to work on his pvses:

the point that you're clearly picking up in a variety of directions, and it's a good point, is that there's a lot of ways to pick up chips via folding equity that aren't just pure blinds steals. amongst those methods are when no one else shows any strengh, putting in a raise (or a push) to take down the limped chips. in the sng arena, it is important to consider lorinda 3:16 or whatever (possibly that should go in the faq too) "do you need this pot?" and also remember that there are clearly things to consider about the stack depths of you and your opponents, number of opponents, position of limpers, etc.

in the future though, if you're going to post a dozen hands all with the same theme (say, practicing the pvs) you might want to consider putting it in one post, instead of 12. hands that aren't on the same theme, yeah, break em up.

anyway, just some stuff to consider up there.

citanul

editted to add: it's about the freaking gap, ok man? other examples of "pvsish plays" are the harrington 62 or 72 play at the final table last year. note that in that hand, the raises to him didn't represent any strength necessarilly either, so he took advantage of the gap, and pushed.

the AJ sb or bb hand, whichever, he's saying "look, no one else has said they want those chips, you should consider getting them at relatively low risk." i don't know how much i agree with that sort of play early, but given correct conditions, i do it as well.

[the shadow]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason it's named after PVS (in my mind) is he's the first one who started talking about specific situations in relatively early levels where FE was higher than most people realized (and risk/reward could be favorable to the player). The specific tactic hadn't really been called out on this forum in such a direct and specific manner (altho I'd love it if The shadow proved me wrong here).

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Yugo, I think you're right. Phil's Level 3 Ramblings thread laid out the idea. That thread coined the name. A classic example of the PVS is his How dare you call me hand -- I've got 32o.

The Shadow

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

AJo is pretty close to trash.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix said he invented it

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Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well considering Sklansky talks about it in TPFAP, I think theres a pretty good chance people knew about it before Phoenix posted about it or before we decided to give it a pretty name.

On a side note: Am I the only one who gets called 75% of the time I try this play? I'm not talking about getting trapped by a big hand that limped, I'm talking getting called by crap like 33, A9o, KTs ... its retarted.

[Phoenix1010]

Haha what the hell? I'm getting called out in a thread I didn't even participate in. Of course I wasn't the first one to use that move. I just came up with it on my own before anyone told me about, and I thought about it a lot and felt like I perfected it for myself, so I felt I was qualified to explain it. I'm pretty sure I put "invented" in quotation marks when I said that. Anyone who thought I was under the impression that I really invented anything is being silly.

-Phoenix