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#21
05-23-2005, 09:38 AM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
[ QUOTE ]
I was struck by the fact that Gabe kept passing judgement on the play of the participants, as though he was a world class player. Excuse me, he might be pretty good, but he isn't nearly good enough to criticize Phil's play. This from somebody who abhors Phil Hellmuth and all his antics. GG [/ QUOTE ] IMHO, Gabe Kaplan is the perfect combination of a guy who is good enough to properly analyze the game, while being intelligent enough to speak well doing it, and funny enough to be entertaining doing it. He might not be a world-class player, but he's definitely a player, and IMHO he didn't once come across as inadequately informed. I think he's easily the best poker color commentary guy there is. 
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#22
05-23-2005, 09:42 AM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
I can see it being a good fold if he wants to mess with Fergusons head, along the lines of if I'm beat he thinks I've got a read, if I lay down the winner he thinks he can jump all over me and I can use that later, (after all it wasn't a huge pot given the blinds). Whether this will work on Ferguson I don't know but from what we saw CF did seem to overplay some hands later. Just a thought.
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#24
05-23-2005, 10:47 AM
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Re: Way
[ QUOTE ]
Fold & show. Part of his game plan. [/ QUOTE ] Hellmuth is not an imbecile. He knows that he has proper pot odds to call here, and he further must know that if his intention is to fold and show for strategy, than there is at least some chance he'll be showing that he mucked a winner, which is the opposite of what he wants to do, and which really pushes the play into the negative. Given these facts, "fold and show" loses a fair amount of value, don't you think? Note: I feel pretty strongly about this play because it is exactly the type of play I was always trying to make (MOST of the time successfully), and because in my experience, you only need to be wrong a very small percentage of the time (as Hellmuth was) for the play to be bad.
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#26
05-23-2005, 12:19 PM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 6. What was with all the preflop limping? Hellmuth didn't seem remotely interested in taking the lead preflop, no matter what he held. Seems like an odd HU strategy. Granted, it eventually worked, which surprised me. I thought sure Ferguson would have figured out that Hellmuth was limping some big hands, waiting for a mistake. But he made the mistake several times anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Putting in much money preflop gives away information with a meaningful gain in chip equity. Pros playing at this level and any sane player would much rather invest their money in getting 2-1 preflop odds on a preflop raise with a better hand at this stack depth . A world-class player, being a pro's pro and a master of reading players will take this strategy to the nth degree. [/ QUOTE ] fyp
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#27
05-23-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 5. Phil's muck of a set of tens was abysmal. There's $75K in the pot, and the bet is $30K. He has TT, and the board shows AKJT7, no flush draw. He tanks, FOLDS, and then shows it? Come on. This is a bad fold, right? [/ QUOTE ] Horrible, horrible fold. I suspect, however, that we'd be hearing about what a genius he is if Jesus had actually had a Q. [/ QUOTE ] Considering the fact that it's a valueish-sized bet, it's not a bad fold at all. [/ QUOTE ] I think not paying this off heads-up is insane. Maybe that's a leak in my game.
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#28
05-23-2005, 12:51 PM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
just a thought - but antonio and hellmuth are the two guys who made the laydowns throughout this competition that have been criticised the most - and also were the two who had the most success in this format.
maybe those laydowns weren't so awful then?
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#29
05-23-2005, 12:55 PM
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Re: Hellmuth vs. Ferguson
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Gabe Kaplan rules. [/ QUOTE ] I was struck by the fact that Gabe kept passing judgement on the play of the participants, as though he was a world class player. Excuse me, he might be pretty good, but he isn't nearly good enough to criticize Phil's play. This from somebody who abhors Phil Hellmuth and all his antics. GG [/ QUOTE ] If the commentators had to be as good as the players there would be very few commentators. Can Hubie Brown get down the court as quick as Tony Parker? Does the guy know what he's talking about? Is it enjoyable and informative to listen to him? That's all that counts. I know one thing, the magician will never play with his face in the monitor again. There was great insight about that hand.You poker players are a strange group.
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#30
05-23-2005, 01:07 PM
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Re: Way
Most of us don't usually want to ever show a mucked winner (because it advertises "you can run over me"), but I don't think Hellmuth thinks that way. I think he gets a charge out of laying down big hands in the first place, but beyond that, if you are going to trap as thoroughly as he does (I didn't see the final episode you guys are talking about, but saw a lot of Hellmuth vs. Esfan...), maybe it's worth it to invite aggression by showing possible bad laydowns (all this being in the context of a heads up situation).
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