Friend Insists on $1/$2, What Should I Do?

[OrianasDaad]

There's no need to convince him to play higher. He will when he feels comfortable with it. What's the hurry?

Being risk averse with your bankroll is certainly NOT a flaw. Even with 300BB there is some risk-of-ruin. With 2000BB, I'd bet the risk-of-ruin for a winning player is about 0%.

How long till he has the bankroll for 2/4 given your estimated winrate of 5BB/100? Just guessing, I figure he is probably clearing at least $20 an hour at 1/2 playing four 6-max tables. 200 hours? Five weeks full-time? Less time if he's making more, more time if he's making less.

If he's winning 5BB/100 he either doesn't play full-time or he makes regular withdrawals from his bankroll. Both are good reasons not to move up too quickly. He clearly should have made more at .50/1 in nine months with a WR like that.

My best guess is that you overestimate his ability, and he does not.

[StellarWind]

People don't need people to tell them to move up.

I'm sure you've made your point by now. It's his life. Maybe he knows more about himself than you do.

Wouldn't it be sad if he couldn't handle the stress of playing for higher limits and developed a tilting or gambling problem? Or perhaps poker just stops being fun because he's scared? Or his significant other can't handle the swings and gets upset?

[stir]

All excellent points (per usual from Stellar)

[augie00]

Some people just don't have very much gamble in them.

[Phill S]

This is like the sixth or seventh spot on post ive read by you that i cant take seriously.

That avatar dude, seriously.

Phill

[vabogee]

there's a poker boom?

[droolie]

Leave your friend alone and let him progress at his own rate. I might as well be the same guy as yor friend and have addressed this many times..

Reposted from another thread....

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I've played over 50K at .50/1. Why? It's fun and I end almost every session way ahead. Reliably making $30 and hour while having fun and almost zero risk is not a bad thing.

Many of us have very different motivations for playing poker. Personally I am very risk averse and do not enjoy winning more money if it feels like a grind. I have played higher limits and been successful but I always come back to .50/1 because there is no stress. I have enough stress in my regular job that when I come home and play at night the last thing I need is more stress. The actual gaming experience of winning 5+BB/100 and winning 2+BB/100 is vastly different. Though I have won more money per hour playing some 2/4 and 3/6 stretches the experience was not as enjoyable for me as a typical night of playing .50/1 clearing bonuses.

If winning the maximum amount of money is your only motivation, regardless of the emtotional toll, then by all means move up every time you have the roll but don't assume that's why we're all playing poker. I'm quite confident I'm a better poker player fundamentaly than many of the players who do quite well at higher limits but the circumstances of my life suit making lower amounts of easy money playing micro limits better. Perhaps you could argue I am leaving $$ on the table by being a pussy or whatever but poker has been fun for me almost every night I've played. Not many people, even the most successful of players, can say that. I'm reasonably sure I will begin playing exclusively at higher limits in the not too distant future but I feel very comfortably defending anybody who decides that 1/2 is the game for them. It's fun. Fun is +EV

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Maybe once you're married and have two kids in diapers you can understand why I play primarily for relaxation and amusement. The $$ is nice but is not my primary objective.

I guess you could say I am a gamer not a gambler. I like playing for fun and profit and I'll take the sure thing and an enjoyable experience over maximizing profits most times. Losing big pots at higher limits really eats me up in an unhealthy manner right now. I can finish a session up $50 but still lose sleep over the $100 pot I lost to a runner runner suckout. Sleep is worth much more than money to me right now with my 6 mo. old ruling the roost. When I lose 20BB pots at .50/1 in the same way I can giggle about it because the $$ is insignificant.

When I cleared the last stars bonus at 3/6 I took down a couple $150 pots and wound up winning twice as much as the bonus I was trying to clear and yet I was miserable the whole time. What can I say I'm a tightass. I have the BR to be playing 5/10 right now (on top of the 4K+ I've already cashed out this year) but I need more time to be immune to chip shock I feel at higher limits.

I understand variance and the concept of making more per hour despite a lower winrate but the actual experience is just too stresful. I just can't convince myself yet that the money is just chips in my 300 bet BR at higher limits. It's real money that could have been withdrawn to play bills, renovate my house and save up for my kids college. Yeah I have issues. Whatever, I'll get there someday and when I do I'll be as prepared as possible.

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[Timer]

I think your "friend" is incredibly brilliant. Just because he is risk averse doesn't mean he won't ever move up.
The biggest mistake most poker players make is moving up too quickly with too little money. 300 big bets isn't close to being enough to make a move, but you see that nonsense spouted here ad nauseam.

Your friend is doing things exactly right. Tell him I said so.

[CORed]

DavidRoss had a 500BB downswing. If I'm not mistaken, the 300BB bankroll is a starting bankroll assuming you never take money out. 200BB downsings are fairly common and 300BB downsings are certainly possible. If you are planning to cash out regularly, I think 500BB is safer, but not totally safe. I cash out 100 when I reach 600BB, leaving 500BB. The bigger your bankroll, the smaller your risk of ruin, but it never gets to zero. 2000BB is extremely risk averse, but if your friend wants to keep his risk of ruin near zero, that is his choice. Also, higher limit games are usually tougher, so the fact that he's winning at 1/2 doesn't guarantee that he will win at 3/6. I think he would be wise to move up, but it's his choice. When I was building bankroll, I would often move up when I had 200BB for the next limit. However, I would move back down if I lost 100 BB at the higher limit. I was willing to risk my entire bankroll while it was small in order to get to higher limits more qucikly, once I had cashed out my initial deposit. Others may choose a more conservative path. That is their choice. The risk of ruin for a given bankroll is a function of your EV and standard deviation, which vary with your playing strategy and the play of your opponents. The 300BB figure is a rule of thumb, and may change depending on a lot of factors.

[captZEEbo1]

I believe there are some excellent essays written in 2+2 books about this idea...finding the most +EV situations in poker. I have a feeling your friend isn't very aware of EV. Point him to some 2+2 essays about bankroll management. I know there is some essay that even advocates playing outside of your limits (a level above) if the game is particular juicy, but to play slightly tighter (for instance, skip only SLIGHTLY +EV situations, but wait for your highest +EV. Example, Let's say you'd always limp A2s on the button, at the next higher limit, you could throw out that play.