Just one of those days

[OldYoda]

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betting this river is terrible advice

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I find that players almost NEVER go for a check-raise here. They're too afraid that you'll check behind because your trip 8s (technically a boat) don't look so good anymore.

You should bet this. Players see 2 pair on the board and they will often call with an A or K kicker (sometimes evev worse). This is a perfect time to value bet.

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Agree. And you left money on the table not raising the flop.

[johnc]

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betting this river is terrible advice

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Explain.

[aron]

Apart from the A high hand that might call you also beat lower pocket pairs, and preflop misplayed JJ-AA.

-aron

[Aaron W.]

I don't really buy the "bet the river" argument.

I'd rather just check behind. For those who are saying worse hands will call, there are very few of them that will. Maybe ace high, maybe a pocket pair, but there's nothing else. The value bet here is going to very thin -- compare this value bet to when the board shows something like 58T8A. And it's -EV if you can't comfortably fold to a check-raise. I hate folding to a river check-raise on the scare card because it's too great of a bluffing opportunity. So I'm not going to put myself in that situation by betting.

Also, consider the action. Unless villain is a LAG, he doesn't have nonsense because he bet the flop and turn. A hand with a ten in it is quite reasonable, and more reasonable than ace-high hands (Axs, big aces) or pocket pairs better than 88 (99, AA-JJ -- but those probably would raise preflop).

[deception5]

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you call THAT a bad beat?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, 9.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) T, 5, T (5 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 5 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, UTG caps, UTG+2 calls $4.50 (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (18.62 BB) 5 (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG bets, Hero calls.


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I'm raising this river.

[deception5]

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 5, 5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 5 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8, 5, T (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, BB folds.

I just called here looking for over calls

Turn: (3.75 BB) 8 (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Ok i hit my boat so unless someonew has quad 8s i have got this pot right?

River: (7.75 BB) T (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.


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Scary flop, gives a lot of draws. You need to charge them now - plenty of gutshots/flush draws will call. Raise here every time. Even if someone hits the straight or flush you still have full house outs.

The way this hand played out you can't put utg+1 on anything. He bet the flop and was called. He bet the turn and as soon as it was raised he called and checked the river. With this betting pattern I think it is extremely likely that he has nothing but may call with almost any high-card thinking "my kicker is probably better with 2 pair". So I'm betting the river against all but a known tricky opponent.

[car ramrod]

After looking back over this, I guess without a read its kind of tough to bet. I would bet in the heat of the battle, but after looking at it, with no reads, a check might be best. A check raise would be really bad.

But..
I think he could easily have bet the flop and turn here with Ax, KQ, KJ, 22, 33, 44, 66, 77, and would call a river bet with all these.

I think a raise on the flop would have been the best play, as the hand plays different. The way it is now UTG1 is just betting, doesn't say a whole lot about strength for most players at this level.

[free=good]

Haven't read others responses.

I 100% raise this flop. I can't tell you how many times a slowplayed bottom set has stuck me and you also have the flush and straight draws to defend against. Make them pay to draw. As for the river, It depends a little on reads. If they are capable of a c/r, then I check it like you did, figuring there's a good chance of them holding a 10 or a weak 8 (unlikely). If not, bet it and hope they were on flush/straight draw.

[Aaron W.]

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After looking back over this, I guess without a read its kind of tough to bet. I would bet in the heat of the battle, but after looking at it, with no reads, a check might be best. A check raise would be really bad.

But..
I think he could easily have bet the flop and turn here with Ax, KQ, KJ, 22, 33, 44, 66, 77, and would call a river bet with all these.

I think a raise on the flop would have been the best play, as the hand plays different. The way it is now UTG1 is just betting, doesn't say a whole lot about strength for most players at this level.

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I have a hard time thinking that K-high will call, but that's a judgment call that I'll just leave as-is.

As for the rest of those pocket pairs, you realize that they're playing TT88 with a sub-ten kicker (playing the board for 44-22), right? I really don't think you're getting paid off by those hands.