20k 2/4 Hands, need some advice

[pshabi]

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What I don't get is, I have a VP$IP hovering around 19.5 or so, and I just don't see playable hands at 2/4 or 3/6 where I'm not starting to coldcall with a lot more hands that I just don't see as playable when I'm HU or 3-way.

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I agree with this.

I just cant think that there is another 8-10 percent of hands that are playable.

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[Chris Dow]

Chief,

Steal Stats:
No Flop: 31.12%
Fold: 16.89%
W w/o SD: 56.74%
WSD: 26.38%
W$SD: 43.88%

Please respond with how these compare to your numbers, thanks.

[iluzion]

With that kinda VPIP stat, I'm really curious to see your BB/100.

[chief444]

Wow, for as high as your attempt to steal is I can't believe there's no flop 31.12% of the time. Of course at 20k total you probably don't have a huge sample (~500 or so?)

Here are mine:

Attempt to steal: 33.33%

no flop: 24.65%
Fold: 17.28%
W w/o SD: 50.19%
WSD%: 32.53%
W$SD: 46.48%

About 800 hands.

[Chris Dow]

I assume chief that you understand why I advocate absolutely running over opponents at these levels after these stats come out. As you can see with BOTH my preflop fold % really high and my W w/o SD % high, I am gaining a ton of money by raising almost regardless of my cards. As long as my opponents continue to let me do this there will be no stopping me or lowering the VPIP. To reiterate, when opponents will invest preflop and then fold a lot later, you can freaking pound away unmercifully.

[chief444]

I understand completely. I guess I just question whether this is the best strategy for a typically loose passive 2/4 level where from my experience you'll have to show down the best hand often. So I think you're probably running a little better than you think. As I said our aggression numbers for 2/4 are pretty similar on all streets but I just don't seem to be having as much success stealing blinds or winning without a showdown.

[mtdoak]

28.13 VPIP is just too damn high for a full ring game. I know i'm repeating everyone else's sentiments, but your range of hands is going to get you in HUGE trouble over the long haul. Over 20k 2/4 hands, i have both crushed 2/4 for 5 BB/100 and lost -.5 BB/100. Your also going to find as TAGs start to get your loose/agro flop numbers in via PT, your going to find yourself paying off ALOT of big hands because you will get trapped preflop by the good 2/4 multitablers with dominated hands. I have 100k hands in and I don't think I have an established win rate yet.

[Chris Dow]

I'm not trying to argue winrate anywhere in this thread or any other thread I make. As far as 28.13 VPIP being too high, I don't wanna argue that here either cause I am well aware of the opinion of the forum on this one. I think that the occasional times I will bluff c/r the turn, or bluff 3 bet the flop and continue with my aggression, are fairly important to play this aggressively. To simplify, if you don't read these forums and see how quickly people will tend to create monster's under the bed at these limits then you don't read very carefully. I never forget during a hand exactly how I would play if I had the monster. When I deem it appropriate, I will pretend like I do.

[Schwartzy61]

As long as your table selection remains the strength of your game go for whatever limit you want.

Just watch out when you face some opponents that figure out what you're doing.

Otherwise keep on trucking to higher limits...

[Munga30]

Hey, more power to you if it's working at 2/4. As your opponents get more observant, and as you move up, they will, they will become more tenacious against you and then what? Could you play tighter if you had to and still be confident in your game? That's what's worth learning now, IMO.