Tough hand, street by street (w/reads) - Page 3

krishanleong · #21 04-27-2005, 11:04 PM

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I C/R here. Now you're way ahead of KK/AA, but I doubt he folds those to a C/R and will call us down for 2 BB. JJ/TT will now fold (maybe) and we'd lose a BB if we'd done C/C/B line. The only hand we're worried about is AQ, and I'm not that worried.

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What happens when he has AK?

Krishan

NLSoldier · #22 04-27-2005, 11:05 PM

I would either bet out, hoping to 3bet, or check/call the turn and checkraise the river.

billyjex · #23 04-27-2005, 11:05 PM

Didn't think about that -- this is a toughie. I'm torn between a turn C/R, call/bet line or a river C/R as mperich suggested since he likes to thin value bet.

krishanleong · #24 04-27-2005, 11:16 PM

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I would either bet out, hoping to 3bet, or check/call the turn and checkraise the river.

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If we assume his range of hands is AA-TT, AK how is the check/call, checkraise plan a good one. Against AA-KK it wins 3-bets. Against JJ-TT it wins 2 bets. Against AK it wins 1 bet if he bets the turn. He won't value bet AK against me. If he checks the turn with AK, he may or may not call a bet on the river.

AA-6 ways-3 BB
KK-6 ways-3 BB
JJ-6 ways-3 BB
TT-6 ways-3 BB
AK-16 ways-1 BB
Weighted average 2.2 BB

Hmmm. Better than I thought.

Leading the turn is hard to judge because it depends so much on his response. Checkraising the turn is worth roughly.

AA-6 ways-3 BB
KK-6 ways-3 BB
JJ-6 ways-1 BB
TT-6 ways-1 BB
AK-16 ways-1 BB

Weighted average 1.6 BB

Am I missing anything?

Krishan

mperich · #25 04-27-2005, 11:20 PM

You said he can laydown. Does this include an overpair to you on that board ever? If so then the merits of waiting for a river c/r increase a lot.

-Mike

Seether · #26 04-27-2005, 11:25 PM

I think you guys are putting this villain on much too strong of hands. Just look at this situation, hes on the button, raises, looks like a steal raise, the SB 3bets which looks like a possible re-steal unless the hero is seen as very tight. With the assumption that the villain is a thinking TAG he could possibly feel that the 3 bet is a resteal attempt and he may cap to represent a premium holding. I have not given too much thought on the line to use in this hand but I think that you guys are giving villain way too much credit for a premium holding.

krishanleong · #27 04-27-2005, 11:36 PM

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You said he can laydown. Does this include an overpair to you on that board ever? If so then the merits of waiting for a river c/r increase a lot.

-Mike

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I don't think he'd lay down aces or kings on a paired board. Too much of a chance I might be taking a shot. I think the main advantage is having villian value bet JJ or TT and make a crying call. The disadvantage is having him check behind with AK, JJ or TT. I never considered this line and I think I like it.

Krishan

krishanleong · #28 04-28-2005, 06:55 AM

I'm not sure what the best action is on the turn. I think it's either leading or check calling and check raising the river. I screwed it up though and cr the turn.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

Since he called my checkraise I'm 95% sure he has an overpair. I'm pretty sure I can pull off a checkraise against an overpair. What's the best move?

Krishan

maxpowers21 · #29 04-28-2005, 07:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys are putting this villain on much too strong of hands. Just look at this situation, hes on the button, raises, looks like a steal raise, the SB 3bets which looks like a possible re-steal unless the hero is seen as very tight. With the assumption that the villain is a thinking TAG he could possibly feel that the 3 bet is a resteal attempt and he may cap to represent a premium holding. I have not given too much thought on the line to use in this hand but I think that you guys are giving villain way too much credit for a premium holding.

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agreed. This is 6max for god sake. How can you put the button on KK AA exclusively. You flopped top pair. Think you are best. Be aggresive, or be passive to trap, or whatever just don't think about folding.

maxpowers21 · #30 04-28-2005, 07:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what the best action is on the turn. I think it's either leading or check calling and check raising the river. I screwed it up though and cr the turn.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

Since he called my checkraise I'm 95% sure he has an overpair. I'm pretty sure I can pull off a checkraise against an overpair. What's the best move?

Krishan

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99, TT, JJ, AK, A8, plus any other loose calls...perhaps, just some possiblities