KK 5-10 No-Limit

[mythrilfox]

I'm saying if it were some tricky young gun who thought he could outplay me, I would be much more inclined to call. Clearly.

This opponent doesn't sound like that type of player though. Depending on stack sizes and how solid he actually is, I think we can find a fold here. JJ is safely ruled out, and I feel like most people would flat-call QQ here. I have this vision in my head of a particular older opponent I used to play against who sounds very much like this. If it were him, I'd have mucked before he even finished putting his chips out. There was 1 combo of KK for him to have and 6 of AA. Easy enough.

Hellmuth also *can't* fold KK preflop very often because he is such an aggressive player. When people play back, they are much less likely to have great hands.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless he has villian covered by so much that hero seems to be bullying other players with his stack, I don't think that's relative.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? That is an utterly bizarre statement. Of course stack sizes matter.

SpaceAce

[Vegas1031]

How is this so difficult?
You put him on 1 of 4 pairs: thats 19 possible combinations, 6 of which you loose to, 1 of which you tie, and 12 of which you dominate: CALL; am i understanding the problem wrong?

[Vegas1031]

to BobboFitos: regardless of the right decision, Helmuth has 9 braclets in Hold'em... should we listen to the people (myself incleded) who post on this site instead?

[kagame]

there are about twenty people on here whom id rather take lessons from

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
When faced with a solid old dude re-raising an UTG raise OTB, I think it's a fairly standard fold.

When faced with a young hotshot who thinks he's the reincarnation of stu ungar, it's an easy slowplay.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would mean that the only hand this guy ever re-raises w/ is AA.

come on.

[italianstang]

There is a fair amount of money in the pot and you have an excellent hand, reads aside, why not just call and take a flop. Clearly if you are thinking this critically about the hand as it is happening then you are skilled enough to get away from KK postflop if it feels right, PLUS there appears to be dead money in the pot (the loose caller on your left) who can be taken advantage of.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
Stack size is far and away the most important thing here. Hero may not even have odds to flop a set.


[/ QUOTE ]
Hero already indicated that he's at the end of a very profitable 5-10 NL session, and at this point he's just passing time. When he tells us the old man's stack size, I think it's fair to infer that he has villian easily covered. That's why I don't think hero's stack size matters too much -- what's difference if he had 5k or 10k?

If you're wondering whether hero had correct odds to flop a set, just multiply ($210 - $70) x 7.5 = $1,050. So, yes, hero has proper mathematical odds to call the pf raise for set value relative to villian's stack size. IMO, the true questions are: (1) what is hero's image to villian? (2) how much to bet on a flop of all undercards? (3) is hero actually behind villian? and (4) if so, will villian pay hero off if a K falls on the flop? The "other guy" should also be a factor, though I don't think he turned out to be so in this hand.


[ QUOTE ]
I still don't think a solid, tight, old guy is going to re-raise QQ here, unless you have been opening suited connectors UTG or something.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since another player cold-called hero's pf raise, I wouldn't say it isn't possible for villian to be holding QQ/JJ.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
to BobboFitos: regardless of the right decision, Helmuth has 9 braclets in Hold'em... should we listen to the people (myself incleded) who post on this site instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

depends on the poster

hypothetically:
if i had a hand that somehow both el diablo and hellmuth saw, and hellmuth said to play it one way, and el diablo in another, i would listen to el diablo

i feel the same about several other posters too.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. poor richie, you really have NO EFFING CLUE!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have to agree with my reasoning, which I explained in further detail in my response to mythrilfox. But at least explain why you think I'm so far off the mark.


[ QUOTE ]
in this hand id probably fold...

[/ QUOTE ]
Though it's a close call between calling/re-raising/folding, I don't think folding is the best choice for reasons mentioned in my response to mythrilfox.