Albert Einstein on the death penalty

[sirio11]

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You don't have "opinions" on physics.

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Completely wrong, modern physics is filled with opinions.

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huh?

I really don't want to discuss technicalities about the word "opinion".

You should know better the difference between the word in a forum like this one and in the Science world.

[DVaut1]

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and I can say with truth, and a little pride, that my I.Q. is in the same general neighborhood of our friend Albert.

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Just a little pride...

Well, the rest of us in the peanut gallery will try to figure this gem out on our own:

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People who say things are obvious generally lack any objective foundation for their pronouncements. As a quick example off the top of my head, compare the US (with capital punishment) with France (without it). I would argue that the US is head and shoulders over France in terms of morality and intestinal fortitude.

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I won't bother asking benfranklin to try to explain this, as I'm sure he's busy pioneering avant-gardes physics theories with Steven Hawking and finally discovering the unified field theory; but rest assured, I think we can all thank benfranklin for taking some time out of his day to inform us of the inherent moral/intestinal fortitude (is this for real? I mean, seriously?) qualities each nationality has. I don't know why ben (whose intellect is, with truth, and a little pride, in the general neighborhood of Einstein’s) would stop at the US and France; perhaps he could enlighten us all and draw a diagram, depicting the intrinsic hierarchy of national intestinal fortitude and morality - I've been curious as to whether or not the Chinese have more natural intestinal fortitude than the Dutch; or if Australians are more/less moral than Brazilians.

What of French immigrants to the US? Do they retain their natural lack of moral clarity, or can we train them? What if John Wayne married Marie Antoinette? Would their kid be a spineless Frenchman or would it possess the required intestinal fortitude to be a true American?

Apparently an IQ similar to Einstein’s doesn't preclude senseless generalizations about nationality.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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You should know better the difference between the word in a forum like this one and in the Science world.

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What's the difference?, my opinions of both subjects are correct [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously, sorry for derailing and being a nit.

[Daliman]

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I don't buy bread from a butcher.
I don't buy meat from a baker.

Now if Einstein wants to give his opinions on physics, then I'll listen with extra respect. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Back then, guys like Einstein and Von neumann were involved in numerous types of think tanks, on a wide range of subjects. Von Neumann even said we should bomb the USSR as a pre-emptive strike.

Just in case you come up with something pithy...McNabb!

[DVaut1]

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Clearly the chance that a innocent man dying should be reason enough to stop killing our criminals. IMO, one innocent man dying is just as bad as an innocent child being murdered.

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Proponents of the death penalty often point to the deterant value of the death penalty. They claim that, even if innocent people are put to death, but that fear of the death penalty saves a greater quantity of people from being killed, then the death of innocent people is justified.

I personally disagree that such a deterant value exists in the current application of the death penalty in the United States; but imagine that we could murder 1 innocent person and, by some miracle, discover the cure for cancer. This would concievably save millions. I could argue that it's a categorical imperative we murder 1 innocent person, if it meant discovering the cure for cancer (and saving millions of lives). Certainly, then, we could leave room in the debate for the notion that innocent deaths could be justified, if they lead to some greater value (in the case of the death penalty, the prevention of a greater quantity of murders). I don't agree with this, but the debate certainly should not end with, "if 1 innocent person dies, then the death penalty is unjustifiable," because there's room for much more to be said on the matter.

[zaxx19]

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Einstein also said (paraphrasing from memory) that he had no inherent objection to the killing of bad and useless people

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I thinnk the use of the word "useless" here is quite troubling.

I also wonder why there hasnt been a thread devoted to Einsteins thoughts on zionism...hmmmm...hmmmm

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Well, "bad and useless" in this regard is quite different than "bad or useless".

Also, as I said, it is from my memory and is a paraphrase. I'm reasonably sure he used the phrase "bad and useless", or an equivalent, but I'm not 100% positive.

[benfranklin]

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We already have innocent people convincted "beyond all reasonable doubt"



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As a simple example, a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt can be reached on circumstantial evidence. I would say that any such conviction should not qualify for capital punishment.

[MMMMMM]

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As a simple example, a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt can be reached on circumstantial evidence. I would say that any such conviction should not qualify for capital punishment.

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Good idea.

[benfranklin]

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But I hardly feel that them standing up to us, and trying to suggest an alternative to a war, makes them "spineless". To the contrary, I think they took the most active role in pushing a path to avoid a war. One could reasonably argue that it was quite courageous of them to do so.

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They presented no alternative, other than endless rhetoric about what a bad person Saddam was, and let's tell him one more time to shape up. They kept voting for resolutions against Saddam, and never had the spine to enforce them. If he didn't comply, they just wanted to pass another resolution.