Ok, Now What?

[neon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

what about checking and pushing against a weak button bet which MP folds when facing...?

[/ QUOTE ]

no no no no

fim you know so much better

you say he's playing on scared money. a weak bet could just be him not wanting to throw out a "real" bet, but accomplishing more or less the same thing

if he throws out a weak bet, lets say just 85, if you c/r him the rest, he needs to call ~300 to win ~950. whats he laying down that he bets the turn w/ given your read? QQ / JJ doesnt call the flop. AA KK AK you're screwed. KQ calls. So that means he maybe folds AQ, (or AJ) and both are getting such a good price. plus if he is playing scared and just calls the fairly drawy flop he'll control pot size and check it through, no?

i dont know if i like check folding or check calling better, but i dont like check raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kinda like CR'ing here, for a bunch of reasons. One is the fact that fim has "been lazy and not pushing it much," two is button playing on scared money.

And three is the flop action. I don't think you can lead this turn after leading the flop. If you get called in two spots again, that sucks. As far as button's holdings, wouldn't he raise AA, KK or AK on such a drawy board, as fim alludes to? Would he really raise preflop w/ KQ? I actually think button's most likely holding is a semi-strong ace, AQ/AJ.

So if you check, and button throws out a weak bet, and assuming that MP folds in front of you, then I like a CR. And if you're gonna CR, you might as well put him to the test for all his chips. Of course, if MP calls button's bet, you might even have to consider folding . . .

Curious to see how this hand played out.

-neon

[iceman5]

Im going to go out on a limb and say that theres no way Im leading into 2 guys with this flop when Im pretty sure at least of them will call.

Im out of position and have no idea what to do if the turn doesnt hit me.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP (1000) is good, button (450) is ok/standard semi-knowledgable player playing on scared money. I (1100) have been playing pretty lazy and not really pushing it much in the last few hours. kinda felt like the type of table where that would be optimal.



Preflop:

MP limps, I limp with JT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], button raises to 15 (this is a high pair or a draw to one), blinds fold, MP calls, I call.

flop (50): A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP checks, I bet $40, Button calls, MP calls

turn (170): K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

MP checks, I...

I think there's a good case for betting again here, but i also wouldn't mind checking this one through in case MP is planning a turn checkraise with AK or 88 (both of which i can see him possibly playing this way, maybe).

So there are lots of lines, including some out there ones that i feel have some merit. what's your favorite?

also, leading into button on this flop is a given W/R stack sizes, right or no?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, just check this turn, nothing else is remotely sane.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about checking and pushing against a weak button bet which MP folds when facing...?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to zee's second stage.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP (1000) is good, button (450) is ok/standard semi-knowledgable player playing on scared money. I (1100) have been playing pretty lazy and not really pushing it much in the last few hours. kinda felt like the type of table where that would be optimal.



Preflop:

MP limps, I limp with JT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], button raises to 15 (this is a high pair or a draw to one), blinds fold, MP calls, I call.

flop (50): A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP checks, I bet $40, Button calls, MP calls

turn (170): K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

MP checks, I...

I think there's a good case for betting again here, but i also wouldn't mind checking this one through in case MP is planning a turn checkraise with AK or 88 (both of which i can see him possibly playing this way, maybe).

So there are lots of lines, including some out there ones that i feel have some merit. what's your favorite?

also, leading into button on this flop is a given W/R stack sizes, right or no?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Look, just check this turn, nothing else is remotely sane.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about checking and pushing against a weak button bet which MP folds when facing...?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to zee's second stage.

[/ QUOTE ]

See how many options a "weak" check gives ya?

;-)

[mythrilfox]

I have a feeling he knows something we don't.

[fimbulwinter]

button bet, MP pushed and button folded AT after me. obviously as played this is an easy one, but i thought it warranted discussion if the turn action was unknown.

thanks all for the input,

fim

[hansarnic]

[ QUOTE ]
also, leading into button on this flop is a given W/R stack sizes, right or no?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, please help me out with this, I can see its an option, but why is it a given?

Thx

[fimbulwinter]

so i flopped a monster and want to get all the chips in on the flop and give him ample opportunity to lay down his better hand. there are two sequences possible for this:

i check, he bets 50, I make it 150-200, he pushes/calls. I don't like this one because i may have to call like 300 all-in and i only win $100 if he makes a laydown. I'll also have an ugly turn decision with 300 behind and a 400 pot should he call.

or

i bet 50, he calls or makes it 150, i push. now i have massive folding equity with the same result. plus, i only have to pay $50 for my draw if he calls and will win $300 if he makes his laydown.

obviously this is a cursory view, but you get the jist.

fim

PS- it also assumes MP drops, obviously. if he doesn't it goes without saying that i'm in trouble here and would play it much more passively.