Johnny Chan Angle Shot in WPT Championship??

[SossMan]

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What he did(if he did on purpose) was used his cunning way to represent weakness to get the guy to move in on him. this is called pshycology. Its like if you got dealt AA in the big blind then pretended to throw it way acting like you thought you were utg to bait someone into trying to steal your blind. Give him credit not insult him for it! An angle shot i don't approve of.


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what you describe is exactly an angle shoot.

[M.B.E.]

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The reason it looks like a legitimate error is because Chan should have better EV just playing the hand traditionally, and he knows this.

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How do you figure?

With small cards on board, Chan must figure it's unlikely Bax has a set or two pair because of the preflop action. Therefore he's pretty confident he has the best hand, with Bax drawing very slim. Since the stacks are so deep, it isn't likely that Chan can get Bax's whole stack playing the hand "traditionally". Also, if Bax has something like JJ or QQ, then an ace or king on the river would kill Chan's action entirely.

Chan is much better off getting most of the chips in on the turn. If Bax has a big pocket pair, and he believes Chan's bet was a mistake, then Bax will have no reason to get away from the hand. If Bax just has AK or something like that, then he probably won't even call a regular-size bet.

In my opinion, the way Chan played this hand had much higher EV than playing the hand "traditionally".

[M.B.E.]

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"angle" is connotative of doing something dishonest.

There is nothing dishonest about this in any way. At worst, it is a very elaborate trap.

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If Chan put the chips in deliberately, and then stated he had put them in by mistake, then of course it is dishonest. That's what "dishonest" means: saying something you know to be false.

The action described in the original post, if deliberate, was the epitome of an angle shot.

[Matt R.]

It looks intentional to me. I seriously doubt he would try to pull the $8K back had he made a mistake and go to the trouble of calling the floor over. He's been playing NL poker long enough to know that once he put $13K in, the floor would rule he must be held to that bet. Attempting to pull back the $8K and going to the trouble of calling the floor over looks like an acting job to me.

[West]

This could be wrong, but it could have been an honest mistake and an acting job at the same time. Let's say he legitimately screws up and puts the wrong chips in. He realizes his mistake, and knows that in all likelihood he will be called on it and the floor will rule that the chips stay. BUT he may have wished that Bax know the actual amount that he intended to bet, not knowing how he would react to the apparent overbet. In which case he would make his honest mistake known. Just a possible scenario.

[Beavis68]

Did anyone notice that Humberto did the EXACT same thing to Daniel in last weeks WPT broadcast?

[Smoothcall]

When someone makes a bet on the river then gets called. And then says that they didn't bet and pulls his bet back saying that he was still thinking and wasn't betting.(that he was just playing with hios chips and not making a bet) That would be an example of a angle shot. Baiting someone into calling you or into raising you is not an angle shot!

[IceKing]

It was a brilliant move, nothing else. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Enrique]

If they have to call the floorperson to see if he can pull the 8K back, it's not bait.
It looks as though he would gladly take the 8K back.
Actually Johnny tried to let the bet stand.
It is not bait.
And it does not look intentional at all.
What if the floorperson had said "you can get your 8K back?"
If it was deliberate it is clearly an angle shot. Even if you say is bait, it is using unethical stuff to get the bait.