Correct to fold AA preflop?

[four eight suited]

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Hmm, 2 players make it to the WSOP and get all in front of you without AA? With the blind structure, it doesn't seem likely their getting all their chips in on even with AA preflop. If anything it seems like one would be calling a raise to trap someone.

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I agree. It was a rediculous hypothetical to try an illuminate one time folding AA would be correct. The likelihood of this happening is a pretty huge longshot.

[four eight suited]

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I would think having an excellent chance to triple my stack would be a very good reason to risk my stack. Even a world class player will on average triple his starting stack less often then you would win this hand.

Paul

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A world class player would know that you dont need to triple your stack in the first hand or even on the first day to have a shot at winning the tournament. The day 1 chipleader is rarely even at the final table, much less the winner. I dont know about Raymer, I know he had a big stack early, but other than him. Sklansky makes this assertion is his TPFAP

[citanul]

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I would think having an excellent chance to triple my stack would be a very good reason to risk my stack. Even a world class player will on average triple his starting stack less often then you would win this hand.

Paul

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A world class player would know that you dont need to triple your stack in the first hand or even on the first day to have a shot at winning the tournament. The day 1 chipleader is rarely even at the final table, much less the winner. I dont know about Raymer, I know he had a big stack early, but other than him. Sklansky makes this assertion is his TPFAP

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My word this is freaking terrible. Stop posting in this thread and do some searches in this forum, the WPT forum, and the MTT forum, or buy TPFAP or something. Your logic sucks. Sklansky does NOT make this assertion, read it again.

A world class player, particularly Raymer I believe, would call in a shot. You don't pass up situations as good as this one for stupid reasons. Let me pull apart your logic in one sentence:

The day 1 chip leader doesn't win the tournament because the day 1 chip leader is almost ALWAYS a gambooling moron who has gotten lucky.

A good player will take good spots to get all their chips in, if they lose go home and be OK with it. A bad player will take good spots to get their chips in sometimes, and bad times too, and well, poker has luck involved, so out of a large field, some bad player who did stupid stuff generally winds up with a lot of chips because they are all in more frequently than the good players.

The next SNG faq will have a link or section on folding aces preflop. This is because well, people make silly posts about it from time to time and then people come out of the woodwork defending it in random situations that are not the original one, usually incorrectly.

Here's a general rule for ALL tournaments though, which is only probably slightly wrong. Never fold aces preflop far from the money. It is ONLY prize structure implications which ever make it worthwhile. There is no number of players all in on the first hand of a major tournament that should make you fold preflop.

citanul

[etgryphon]

Sklansky makes this assertion for small edges early in tournaments. AA PF with two allin is not a small edge. Its a big edge. This is not a situation where you would fold AA PF.

The only situation were it would be correct to fold AA PF is this:

Sat. Tourny where the top 7 spots pay the<font color="red"> SAME</font> prize ( i.e. one seat, 10k whatever) and there are 8 people left and 8th gets nothing. You are in Late position and two or more people are Allin in front of you. NOW and only now, it would be correct to fold AA Preflop.

-Gryph

[citanul]

good [censored] lord. that is clearly not the "only" situation where it is correct. please people stop putting in more crap about when you think it's right ot fold aces preflop. anyone who's even vaguely interested in it can find one of the 2000 posts where this topic has been beaten to death.

citanul

[splashpot]

I read somewhere that the only time to correctly fold AA preflop is in a satalite situation where the top few spots offer the same prize. Usually entry into another tourny.

For example, all payouts are equal. Top 3 people win entry to another tourny. 9 people go all in. In this situation, it is correct to fold.

[citanul]

die a painful death.

citanul

[etgryphon]

Jeez Cit,

It was a hyperbole post...It contains all the principles that need to be thought about if you are THINKING about folding AA preflop. My post was just to state the only time it is CLEARLY correct to fold PF without really thinking about it.

Don't lump me in with people who post crap situations.

-Gryph

[pooh74]

wow

[Nottom]

If you replace "we were all evenly stacked" with "they were all evenly stacked and I had 1 chip." Then folding AA would be correct.