A preflop decision that I didn't know how to deal with - Page 3

DeadRed · #21 04-06-2005, 02:47 PM

Daddy, note the *wink*. I'm not afraid to go against the grain, but I've seen the abuse some people take when doing so. I was just trying to head 'em off at the pass, while being a little cheeky at the same time. I've got plenty of experience at the nano limits and have played enough 1/2 and 2/4 to see the difference and think I could write a book myself, but don't think there would be enough interest in How YOU can smoke .02/.04 for 8BB/100 hands to make it worth my while.

As for the hand, if you cold call, hoping for other callers, you aren't "getting off cheap". This is a hand that you really want to limp in for 1 bet, and if you think the only way you're going to win it is to spike your set (as your other posts suggest), you're better off folding when the raise comes and waiting for an unraised pot to play this.

DeadRed · #22 04-06-2005, 02:55 PM

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Any "playing hand" I assume you mean decent limping hand, will leave you at even money after the flop.

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I think you're better than 50/50 vs Axs when the off card is 2 through 7 and crushing any PP below 8. This should more than make up for the hands when you're against a bigger PP. I would be ecstatic to get HU preflop. My entire nano-limit reason for folding is that you won't end up that way.

Fishlips_Jones · #23 04-06-2005, 03:23 PM

I fold.

Fishlips

FreakDaddy · #24 04-06-2005, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any "playing hand" I assume you mean decent limping hand, will leave you at even money after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're better than 50/50 vs Axs when the off card is 2 through 7 and crushing any PP below 8. This should more than make up for the hands when you're against a bigger PP. I would be ecstatic to get HU preflop. My entire nano-limit reason for folding is that you won't end up that way.

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You will be slightly favored against Ax (if it's 8 or lower of course) are we including that in early middle position raise as "decent hand" to raise with? I wouldn't, even at this level.

Look, let me make this more simple. If you're desire is to win money, why would you gamble on a coin flip? If you have more than one player in that pot, WITH 3-bets, you are a BIG under dog. Call/Fold.

Entity · #25 04-06-2005, 04:17 PM

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He's only 50/50 against raiser

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People need to get this out of their heads. He's only 50/50 against the raiser when the hand goes to showdown.

Zoelef · #26 04-06-2005, 04:20 PM

Given that this is 'nano' level people will cold-call two/three cold with all sorts of crap, as long as they have a face card. Folding here is probably fine since 2+ overcards at any round pretty much screws you unless you spike a set.

AlmightyJay · #27 04-06-2005, 04:24 PM

Playing a little devil's advocate here.

To all the people who say you should fold because if you 3-bet, people will call behind you.. well, isn't that a good thing? A lot of people would 3-bet 88 on the button against an UTG raiser and two or more callers, wouldn't they? There are still four people to act behind me. If I 3-bet and get it HU, great. If I don't, then that's fine too, since 88 plays well multi-way.

I'm sure this logic is flawed. Is it because of position?

IcarusFalling · #28 04-06-2005, 04:25 PM

i like to think of these hands like coinflips. if the flop is nice (low cards) then your good ... if it flops a set your really good.. and if you see some high cards and too much agressive you can fold it.. heads up or big multiway these cards tend to shine

GuruCane · #29 04-06-2005, 05:04 PM

Why bet the river? Isn't this the classic situation where you will only get called or raised by a better hand? Maybe not true at these limits so you may get two BB out of it.

FreakDaddy · #30 04-07-2005, 01:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Daddy, note the *wink*. I'm not afraid to go against the grain, but I've seen the abuse some people take when doing so. I was just trying to head 'em off at the pass, while being a little cheeky at the same time. I've got plenty of experience at the nano limits and have played enough 1/2 and 2/4 to see the difference and think I could write a book myself, but don't think there would be enough interest in How YOU can smoke .02/.04 for 8BB/100 hands to make it worth my while.

As for the hand, if you cold call, hoping for other callers, you aren't "getting off cheap". This is a hand that you really want to limp in for 1 bet, and if you think the only way you're going to win it is to spike your set (as your other posts suggest), you're better off folding when the raise comes and waiting for an unraised pot to play this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You cheeky monkey! Ok here's the thing. 1) I didn't say the only way you're going to win this hand is by spiking a set 2) This is nano limits. For the same reason that leads you to believe that the pre-flop raiser may not be raising with an adequate early middle position raise, is the SAME reason I'd advocate a call/fold. 3-betting a hand you may already be behind OR are facing decent broadways is not a great position to be in with people left to act behind you. At 1/2 I either raise/fold in this situation. At this level I call/fold. Look at how the hand played out. Since you have experience at this level, can you honestly say that this seems that out of the ordinary? To have people call 3-bets? I'd bet no. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If you were more than 80% certain that people would cold call 3 bets behind you at 1/2 or 2/4 level, would you 3-bet this? Of course not. You have to get this hand heads up and you need position. Hero is guarnteed neither of these and that's why I advocate call/fold.