99 5-10 6 max

[mike l.]

ok ive been doing this a lot online, betting river, folding to a raise. but im going to start doing it less. the times im calling w/ AK on a A76J2 board after they river raised me im being shown J3 too often.

[Alobar]

I don't like folding to a river raise unless it is super obvious I'm beat.

On a board like you describe, you assume you HAVE to be beat, because no way is TPTK good in this situation. Thats true against normal people, but Id say less than 10% of the 5/10 players have an IQ higher than forrest gump [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Same goes for turn checkraises, I used to dump TPTK unless I had the odds to try for a 2 pair or something. Now I call down alot more often, because I get shown TPWK a ton of times. To me its starting to become an epidemic the number of players who checkraise the turn when they flopped top pair, regardless of how crappy their kicker is, or even if an overcard falls on the turn.

[MAxx]

well it maybe a pretty easy river bet for you, but that doesnt necessarily make it right. Being ahead more than 50%, IMO opion is highly player dependant. I personally think I would have to witness some pretty bad river calls on their parts before I assume they meet the criteria for this thin river bet... such as showing down any pair or any A high in any situation.

[DrGutshot]

If you were raising for value on the turn, why check the river? Was it the king or the call-2 cold that scared you into thinking you were beat?

edit: if you thought 66,77, a pair of 5's or 4's wouldn't call this river, you are wrong.

-DrG

[MAxx]

looked more like a turn protection/free showdown raise to me and less of a pure value raise.

[ISF]

If you are raising the turn here to protect your hand/ For value, then what has changed? The one overcard? I am saying its easy as once you were not threebet on the turn you hand is usually ahead of the range of hands your opponents have. Yes it is likely that one was on a flush draw and will fold but not that both are, and not likely that that king helped anyone that called two on the turn. I think that given that you were not threebet you are much more likely to be up against a low pp, a five or a 2, and hance this river bet is pretty +EV.

[Justin A]

The call the flop and lead the turn line when a scare card hits is almost always weak.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: if you thought 66,77, a pair of 5's or 4's wouldn't call this river, you are wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything to the contrary. Sure 66, 77, x5, and x4 are possible calling hands. The issue is really how often you bet your hand and get calls with the mentioned hands or worse.

Folded draws don't help you, and checkraises are bad. Calls with better hands are not good. The only things you REALLY like are calls with worse hands. If the answer here is TRULY often enough... then you are right.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
The call the flop and lead the turn line when a scare card hits is almost always weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

... or many times a gaybet draw.

[Danenania]

[ QUOTE ]
ok ive been doing this a lot online, betting river, folding to a raise. but im going to start doing it less. the times im calling w/ AK on a A76J2 board after they river raised me im being shown J3 too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone remember a post by StellarWind in Small Stakes where he talks about calling river raises? It's from a long time ago but very good. Basically the gist was that in a passive game (which 5/10 6-max is) there are a lot of players who are very rarely raising the river even with fairly strong made hands, but they WILL bluff sometimes. For players of this type the math comes out highly in favor of calling river raises since a large portion of the combinations they might be raising are bluffs.

It's an interesting step beyond the "How often do I have to be good based on the size of the pot?" question to "How often do I have to be good WHEN this player raises? Which is not often."