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#21
02-24-2005, 06:32 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Possibly. But I think I was bluffing with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Last time I checked, this was impossible. [/ QUOTE ] It's a pretty standard description of a bluff that may not really be one. Maybe you've you've not heard of a semi bluff? I suggest The Theory of Poker or Hold'Em for Advanced Players to learn more. Once again, you have nothing better to do than dig up long dead threads in order to find something to feebly attempt to insult me with? Really, you need to find better ways to spend your time. [/ QUOTE ] Dude I usually don't mind your rants and stuff but seriously, anyone who has read those books knows that a semibluff is "A bet intending to take down the pot with a hand which does not now figure to be the best hand, but has a high chance of improving to the best hand anyway if the bet is called" This is a value bet on the flop IMO because you're good here a lot of the time. If someone calls you with a worse hand you make money and if you take down the pot that's great. Once you check the turn and hope that LP will bet and hope that everyone will fold to your turn CR you pretty much rely solely on one sequence of events for a positive effect to happen. If you bet the flop you might take it down or you might get raised and can make an easy value fold, but you won't have to pray that things turn out just right. I believe bluffs are talked about all the time here, this one just seems really strange and in a small pot and the way you did it just seems unnecessary. Bluffs are usually successful against one opponent in medium sized (not tiny) pots on the turn or river, not against a whole field especially when a J has just fallen (a card likely to have hit any of the other players). If you're so certain you have the best hand what you're really doing is protecting your hand by trying to get all those people in the middle to fold, so you can check/call the river I'm assuming to get another BB out of your awesome ace high. 
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#22
02-24-2005, 06:34 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
They pay a LOT more attention than anyone on this board gives them credit for. One of the achilles' heels of the players on this board is the sheer arrogance they bring to the table. Many of the fish are only playing one table at a time, and they *do* notice what you're doing. To simply assume otherwise is -EV in a big way. [/ QUOTE ] So then why after folding every non-blind hand for 2 orbits do they cold-call me in multiple spots after raising UTG? Alright, maybe they're paying attention, but when they pay attention then fail to act on the information they've gained does it really matter?
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#23
02-24-2005, 06:34 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
It is possible to bluff with the best hand. But that is not a semi-bluff.
A semi-bluff is a bet with a hand that is clearly not best now, but has a good chance of improving to the best hand as a backup in case the bluff fails to get the opponent to fold (as all bluffs intend).
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#24
02-24-2005, 06:38 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Possibly. But I think I was bluffing with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Last time I checked, this was impossible. [/ QUOTE ] It's a pretty standard description of a bluff that may not really be one. Maybe you've you've not heard of a semi bluff? I suggest The Theory of Poker or Hold'Em for Advanced Players to learn more. Once again, you have nothing better to do than dig up long dead threads in order to find something to feebly attempt to insult me with? Really, you need to find better ways to spend your time. [/ QUOTE ] Dude I usually don't mind your rants and stuff but seriously, anyone who has read those books knows that a semibluff is "A bet intending to take down the pot with a hand which does not now figure to be the best hand, but has a high chance of improving to the best hand anyway if the bet is called" This is a value bet on the flop IMO because you're good here a lot of the time. If someone calls you with a worse hand you make money and if you take down the pot that's great. Once you check the turn and hope that LP will bet and hope that everyone will fold to your turn CR you pretty much rely solely on one sequence of events for a positive effect to happen. If you bet the flop you might take it down or you might get raised and can make an easy value fold, but you won't have to pray that things turn out just right. I believe bluffs are talked about all the time here, this one just seems really strange and in a small pot and the way you did it just seems unnecessary. Bluffs are usually successful against one opponent in medium sized (not tiny) pots on the turn or river, not against a whole field especially when a J has just fallen (a card likely to have hit any of the other players). [/ QUOTE ] Well I thought it might not have hit the TAG. His bet reeked of a desperation bluff from the button to me. So I raised him, since I was in the SB and it would be a highly credible bluff. I took a shot at picking up the pot. A semi-bluff, btw, is not only a bluff with a hand that could improve. It's a bluff with a hand that figures not to be the best now, but could improve. One can semi-bluff with a hand that is in fact the best, as when someone semi bluffs with an ace high flush draw when ace high is good. I could have improved with an ace, and though I might not have been the best right then, I might have been. It had elements of a semi-bluff, and elements of a pure bluff. And as it turns out, I was bluffing with the best hand.
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#26
02-24-2005, 06:43 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think a 3-out draw is a great spot to semibluff, but whatever. [/ QUOTE ] Have you even read the thread? I thought villian was on a bluff. Therefore, I might have been best, I could have improved to a winner, and I might get him to fold. The only "bad" part about this play was the small pot, but in retrospect I actually think the fact that the pot was small helped villian to lay down.
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#27
02-24-2005, 06:45 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
A semi-bluff, btw, is not only a bluff with a hand that could improve. It's a bluff with a hand that figures not to be the best now, but could improve. One can semi-bluff with a hand that is in fact the best, as when someone semi bluffs with an ace high flush draw when ace high is good. I could have improved with an ace, and though I might not have been the best right then, I might have been. It had elements of a semi-bluff, and elements of a pure bluff. And as it turns out, I was bluffing with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] My vote for "Post that added the most to the boards."
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#28
02-24-2005, 06:50 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Of course I've heard of a semi-bluff. But if you think you're semibluffing, say that. You cannot "bluf with the best hand". That's called a value bet. I dont know why you think this was long dead, it was on the first page. [/ QUOTE ] A bluff is when you represent something that you do not have. A bluff with the best hand is when you believe you might be behind (or likely are) but in fact have the best hand. In this spot, I was bluffing. I did not have the 3 I was representing, or the jack. I was betting purely as a bluff to get my opponent to fold. However, since *he* might have been on a pure bluff, my ace high might have been good, and ergo I might have been "bluffing with the best hand". I suggest you read a few more poker books if this is unclear to you. Here is an article from Cardplayer where the concept is mentioned, for your reference: Bluffing with the best hand Here's a quote from the relevant section of the article: "To set the stage for the hand I won, let me give you the prelude hand (as best as I can remember it). The structure was $100-$200 blinds with a $25 ante. A player two seats to the right of the button opened for $500. 2003 World Champion Chris Moneymaker was in the big blind and raised to $2,000. The original raiser instantly moved all in for $700 more, and of course Chris called. When the hands were shown, I could not believe my eyes. Chris had been bluffing with an ace and some small kicker like a 6 or 7, and it was offsuit, to boot. However, his opponent had only K-J, so Moneymaker was bluffing with the best hand. How Chris' opponent decided to play K-J for all of his money against a world champion is a mystery to me, as I'm sure it was to all the other people observing this incident. However, the K-J made a pair and the ace did not, so Moneymaker got drawn out on and knocked down to short money, setting the stage for the incident that occurred a few hands later." In conclusion, I do hope you'll think these flames through a little more next time. This one was weak and stupid--a terrible combination. [/ QUOTE ] You need to work on your reading comprehension. Here, Moneymaker was bluffing, hoping to take the pot down without a struggle. It turned out that his opponent did not have much. It was still a bluff. If I hold 42o in the SB, have 20 BBs left, and move all in on the BB preflop (he has me covered) , and he happens to have 32o, I have still bluffed, but by luck I had the best hand. According to your definition, my moving in with 42o was a semi-bluff!
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#29
02-24-2005, 06:54 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Of course I've heard of a semi-bluff. But if you think you're semibluffing, say that. You cannot "bluf with the best hand". That's called a value bet. I dont know why you think this was long dead, it was on the first page. [/ QUOTE ] A bluff is when you represent something that you do not have. A bluff with the best hand is when you believe you might be behind (or likely are) but in fact have the best hand. In this spot, I was bluffing. I did not have the 3 I was representing, or the jack. I was betting purely as a bluff to get my opponent to fold. However, since *he* might have been on a pure bluff, my ace high might have been good, and ergo I might have been "bluffing with the best hand". I suggest you read a few more poker books if this is unclear to you. Here is an article from Cardplayer where the concept is mentioned, for your reference: Bluffing with the best hand Here's a quote from the relevant section of the article: "To set the stage for the hand I won, let me give you the prelude hand (as best as I can remember it). The structure was $100-$200 blinds with a $25 ante. A player two seats to the right of the button opened for $500. 2003 World Champion Chris Moneymaker was in the big blind and raised to $2,000. The original raiser instantly moved all in for $700 more, and of course Chris called. When the hands were shown, I could not believe my eyes. Chris had been bluffing with an ace and some small kicker like a 6 or 7, and it was offsuit, to boot. However, his opponent had only K-J, so Moneymaker was bluffing with the best hand. How Chris' opponent decided to play K-J for all of his money against a world champion is a mystery to me, as I'm sure it was to all the other people observing this incident. However, the K-J made a pair and the ace did not, so Moneymaker got drawn out on and knocked down to short money, setting the stage for the incident that occurred a few hands later." In conclusion, I do hope you'll think these flames through a little more next time. This one was weak and stupid--a terrible combination. [/ QUOTE ] You need to work on your reading comprehension. Here, Moneymaker was bluffing, hoping to take the pot down without a struggle. It turned out that his opponent did not have much. It was still a bluff. If I hold 42o in the SB, have 20 BBs left, and move all in on the BB preflop (he has me covered) , and he happens to have 32o, I have still bluffed, but by luck I had the best hand. According to your definition, my moving in with 42o was a semi-bluff! [/ QUOTE ] No you have bluffed with the best hand, not semi-bluffed. Here, I did both. Do you see why?
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#30
02-24-2005, 07:02 AM
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Re: Good spot for a bluff? We don\'t talk about those much on here...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think betting the turn would have been a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Possibly, but checkraising the turn is also a mistake. Small pot your bluff has to work quite often to be profitable. Guys with very little $$ left tend to play much looser, not the other way around. [/ QUOTE ] Possibly. But I think I was bluffing with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A bluff with the best hand is when you believe you might be behind (or likely are) but in fact have the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] So, putting them together we get: [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think betting the turn would have been a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Possibly, but checkraising the turn is also a mistake. Small pot your bluff has to work quite often to be profitable. Guys with very little $$ left tend to play much looser, not the other way around. [/ QUOTE ] Possibly. But I think I was bluffing with a hand where I think I am likely behind. [/ QUOTE ] This makes no sense.
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