Worst turn card ever

[NickPoker]

In these lower limit NL games, especially live games an $8 bet preflop doesn't accomplish narrowing the field very often, which is what you want with a hand like QQ. I know it is 4XBB, and that it is a standard raising amount, but in many players mind it is "just" $8. I think a better line with a hand like this would be a $15 opening preflp raise, this should weed out most hands that will blindside you post flop (if it doesn't the people making the calls will preflop bet themselves into rebuy after rebuy, because the odds won't justify too many calls with those type of hands given the stack sizes on the table.) Now we are to the flop, if you happend to get a couple of calls, you could either bet the pot (which commits you) or push, I would push. In these low NL capped short stacked games you almost always have to go to the felt with the hand you described, so my advice is to narrow the field so you have a better chance of winning the hand. Once the villian called your preflop bet, there was nothing you could do after that flop hit, your chips were destined for his stack.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]

Sounds silly, but I like action when I have big pairs, even against fairly good players. The key concept is not overplaying your hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't sound silly. I think what makes this hardest in practice is when you are to the right of players capable of making sophisticated bluffs. Its especially tough to play QQ leading into that sort of player...if stays one pair and the board gets scary you are often forced to lay it down. Unless you can read them well you may end up conceding this hand when any overcard or draw hits.

If its just a player or two who are TAG to your left then I agree with you its easy to get away from. If its a player who is a little crazy on top of being smart I am more of a mind to either draw their money in early with a bigger raise or force them out. If they are going to gamble that they can outplay you on the flop and turn, make them gamble more.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
In these lower limit NL games, especially live games an $8 bet preflop doesn't accomplish narrowing the field very often, which is what you want with a hand like QQ. I know it is 4XBB, and that it is a standard raising amount, but in many players mind it is "just" $8. I think a better line with a hand like this would be a $15 opening preflp raise, this should weed out most hands that will blindside you post flop (if it doesn't the people making the calls will preflop bet themselves into rebuy after rebuy, because the odds won't justify too many calls with those type of hands given the stack sizes on the table.) Now we are to the flop, if you happend to get a couple of calls, you could either bet the pot (which commits you) or push, I would push. In these low NL capped short stacked games you almost always have to go to the felt with the hand you described, so my advice is to narrow the field so you have a better chance of winning the hand. Once the villian called your preflop bet, there was nothing you could do after that flop hit, your chips were destined for his stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your thinking here but it doesn't wholly apply to this game. With respect to buyins, the starting buyin is $140 for this game but, at any time, you can rebuy up to half of the largest stack at the table (so if someone has $600, you can top off to $300 at any time). By the middle/end of the night, deep stacks are the norm. This hand occurred fairly early so shallow-stacked thinking applies but, in general, I wouldn't categorize this game in with Party-type structured games.

With respect to the opening raise size, opening raises are commonly $6-$12, occassionally more if the raiser is trying to limit the field out of the blinds with many limpers (example: I had AA in the SB, 4 people limped, I made it $16 to go).

With the amount of money in my stack, a $15 raise would probably only be called by AA-JJ and AK at this table. This may or may not be a good thing but I like to keep my raises a fairly standard size and I don't think $15 would work well for my overall style of play.

[boondockst]

worst turn card ever would actually be more like:

Hero: QQ

Flop: T J T

Turn: J

giving any moron with a jack or ten a commanding lead vs. you

or maybe a turn card that puts an openended straightflush on board vs. your Ace-high flush in a 4-way pot.

With 2 cards of a suit on the flop we expect some of the time for the 3-flush to complete. It can complete on the turn as much as the river..Expect it.

[Tilt]

Obviously, I have found this hand/game very interesting. So thanks for posting it.

I have another thought about how to play this here. If you felt strongly that if you did not raise that one of your opponents to your left would with a wide variety of hands, I would serisouly have considered a limp reraise. You may hev limited the field and built the pot all at once this way.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, I have found this hand/game very interesting. So thanks for posting it.

I have another thought about how to play this here. If you felt strongly that if you did not raise that one of your opponents to your left would with a wide variety of hands, I would serisouly have considered a limp reraise. You may hev limited the field and built the pot all at once this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

See this thread:

Failed limp-reraise

for what happened when I tried to limp/reraise in this game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: villain from that hand was directly to my left for the QQ hand in this thread. He folded to my flop bet after calling my PF raise.

[Richie Rich]

If he had T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], then you were drawing dead. Even if you filled up.

[Ghazban]

He didn't; his suit was hearts.