Comments Please

[casmells]

pushing for 100+ with 99 or KJ pf is ridiculous.

come sit at my table

[MonkeeMan]

[ QUOTE ]
What I do want is to see a flop with 57s. It is a hand that I limp with. When a Laggy oppenent raises behind $5 behind me I will seldom fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) You're in very bad shape once your observant LAG sees you like to limp with one-gappers and will stick around for a raise.
2) Calling a raise is not considered limping in. Once its raised you should release against one opponent.
3) The best flop you can reasonably hope for with this hand is trips or most likely a draw. A draw is tough to play out of position unless the LAG makes betting mistakes.

[NiceCatch]

Hero did have position in this case. Raiser acted right after him, and assuming the raiser follows his action on the flop with a bet, Hero acts last (this is a pretty reasonable assumption in 6max... Ciaffone and Reuben also talk about this "relative postion" concept). Hero's position is perfect for setting up checkraises when his trash hits. I don't mind the call, though I agree, you need to be deeper to play 57s. I don't like moving in on the turn... very Super/System, though.

You sound like you have alot of tough decisions in marginal situations. I find that I can play in such situations, but I really have to be playing my best to be doing this. You could make life a little simpler and just tighten up a bit preflop.

[NiceCatch]

Just read your last post. Passion, I've been in your shoes. I used alot of the tricks you talked about, and dropped down from full tables to 4-, 5-, and 6-max. You're probably in for a pretty bumpy ride; I was. Just the sheer math of the short-handed should preclude you from playing alot of trash against any but the most predictable LAGgers. There's less dead money in raised pots than in long-handed (less players to call the blind before pre-flop raises). And position is extremely important. It's just too easy to get pushed off of pots without position. What you are doing is trying to ambush players that get commited to their hands. This tends to work much better long-handed, for whatever reason (my theory is that it takes so much longer to get a really premium hand in long-handed, that bad players get married to their hands). 5max and 6max players overall tend to be much better poker players, in my experience, and HAVE TO BE; it's a much more difficult game than full-table NL.

As to raising JJ and 99 all-in before the flop... well. I dunno... guess it worked out for you. If you can consistently make reads to justify those plays, by all means, go for it. But even when you're up against overs, you're only a small favorite; why put yourself in those positions?

[passion]

Thanks for your insights. The ride has already been a bit bumpy (but way fun). I think I can beat the game (rakeback is a big plus) but I have had some big swings. For me it seems relatively easy to double through in a 6max game (relative to a full ring game). Its also easier to drop a buy-in (or at least a good chunk of one). I posted my win rate earlier (3.9/100 with 13K hands). Is my standard deviation of 151.00/100 normal or high? Of course I would like my win rate as high as possible with the lowest standard deviation. The marginal situations that you speak about may be a leading to too many big swings (e.g. I lost 1000 on Friday and won $1500 over the weekend). It is also typical for me to sit at several tables with more that $300, but be only slightly ahead for the session. Is this normal.

Passion

[fathertime]

I very much appreciate the posts that argue against making the play. The strongest argument against doing it is probably the flush draw on the flop.

At the same time I think a valid argument can be made for why the play was good and should be made. Suggesting that it is a categorically bad idea is incorrect.

[TrailofTears]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero did have position in this case. Raiser acted right after him

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the opposite of position.

[ QUOTE ]
Hero's position is perfect for setting up checkraises when his trash hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same thing could apply for 82o, no? Trash is called trash because it is TRASH. Granted, this isn't the trashiest of hands, but as everyone has discussed, OP will likely flop a draw at best, and as he is OUT OF POSITION, the draw will be very difficult to play. Hero won't want to build a pot that he isn't getting odds to draw to. Also, as OP and many others have stated, aggression is a big part of 6max, and playing a draw against aggression is difficult when you are not getting odds and your draw is to a baby straight or baby flush.

Playing against a player like villain is a great time to be patient and wait for a good hand to bust him. Trying to see all kinds of flops with crap hands is going to widdle away your stack or worse, as happened here.

[ QUOTE ]
You sound like you have alot of tough decisions in marginal situations. I find that I can play in such situations, but I really have to be playing my best to be doing this. You could make life a little simpler and just tighten up a bit preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this paragraph aimed at me or OP?

- Trail

[TrailofTears]

OP severely overplayed this hand, plain and simple, but I do understand your and OP's thoughts on no one correct play or style. However, there are bad plays, we all have them, and this hand is a perfect example of that.

- Trail

[NiceCatch]

BTW, my line on the hand, assuming I call the preflop:
I don't like leading the flop... I like a check raise much better. When you lead the flop, you completely give up position, especially considering they have ACTUAL position on you. If they check behind, bet the pot on the turn (you just effectively gave yourself a free card).
So check raise a fair amount (I'd overbet the pot), and given a flop call and the turn, move in.

Now do they call you with the flush draw? Well, you probably want them to, given you hit a pair, and your read says overs.

[TrailofTears]

Two nice posts in this thread B2L. Very succinct. I am a bit long-winded. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

- ToT