A SSNL Preflop survey

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
So just about everyone treated AQs very differently from AKs. Are these hands really that different? It only really matters if your opponent has AK, AQ, KK, or QQ. Given the range of hands people raise with in EP, are these 4 hands common enough to make you switch between raising and folding?

[/ QUOTE ] First of all, both boondockst and myself played them quite similarly. Second of all, there are a lot of people on here who said they would raise ATs but fold AQs to a raise. WTF? Do they really think everyone they play against is a tighter raiser than they are?! I would call with AQs every time and expect to be against a weaker ace most of the time if I am getting action on an Axx flop. Of course, I can lay it down if I sense I am beat or if I am against an EP raise from a tight player, but I don't believe the question even specified that the raise was from EP and my default is certainly not to assume that a standard SSNL player only raises premium aces. I see so many raises with A7s and then plenty of action on an Axx flop. I told myself I would never again go broke with AQ, but that doesn't mean I won't play it for a raise. Particularly from late or mid position.

[amoeba]

why are so many calling 7 but folding 8?

I think some of you put too much value in to position in this case.

[Benal]

From a 6max perspective...

1. You hold 44 UTG in a loose passive game. Whats your play?

Limp

2. You hold ATs in MP. All fold to you. WYP?

Raise

3. You hold ATs in MP. 3 limpers. WYP?

Raise

4. You hold ATs in MP. 2 limpers and a 4x BB raise. WYP?

Fold

5. You hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and 2 cold callers. WYP?

Reraise

6. You Hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and a reraise of 3x original raise. WYP?

Call

7. You hold 89s on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

Call with deep stacks. Otherwise fold.

8. You hold 89s on the BB. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

Fold

9. You hold 55 on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

Call with deep stacks. Otherwise fold.

10. You Hold KQs in MP. all fold to you. WYP?

Raise

11. You hold KQs in MP. 2 limpers. WYP?

Raise

12. You hold AQs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP?

Call

13. You hold AKs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP?

Reraise

[joeboe2001]

Keep in mind I have been playing many tournaments lately--but...


1. You hold 44 UTG in a loose passive game. Whats your play? FOLD




2. You hold ATs in MP. All fold to you. WYP? CALL HALF THE TIME, RAISE THE REST

3. You hold ATs in MP. 3 limpers. WYP? CALL

4. You hold ATs in MP. 2 limpers and a 4x BB raise. WYP? FOLD

5. You hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and 2 cold callers. WYP? CALL

6. You Hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and a reraise of 3x original raise. WYP? FOLD

7. You hold 89s on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP? FOLD

8. You hold 89s on the BB. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP? FOLD

9. You hold 55 on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP? FOLD

10. You Hold KQs in MP. all fold to you. WYP? RAISE

11. You hold KQs in MP. 2 limpers. WYP? RAISE

12. You hold AQs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP? CALL

13. You hold AKs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP? CALL

Post Extras



Entire thread
Subject Posted by Posted on
A SSNL Preflop survey sonataarctica 02/03/05 07:25 AM
Re: A SSNL Preflop survey boondockst 02/03/

[tbach24]

I'm going to assume 100 BB stacks in an average game.

[ QUOTE ]
1. You hold 44 UTG in a loose passive game. Whats your play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp.

[ QUOTE ]
2. You hold ATs in MP. All fold to you. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp.

[ QUOTE ]
3. You hold ATs in MP. 3 limpers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp.

[ QUOTE ]
4. You hold ATs in MP. 2 limpers and a 4x BB raise. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold.

[ QUOTE ]
5. You hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and 2 cold callers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 20xBB.

[ QUOTE ]
6. You Hold QQ in the CO. a 4x BB raise and a reraise of 3x original raise. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call. You have position.

[ QUOTE ]
7. You hold 89s on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call.

[ QUOTE ]
8. You hold 89s on the BB. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold. Out of position.

[ QUOTE ]
9. You hold 55 on the Button. a 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call.

[ QUOTE ]
10. You Hold KQs in MP. all fold to you. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 4xBB.

[ QUOTE ]
11. You hold KQs in MP. 2 limpers. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise to 6xBB or limp, depending on what type of mood I'm in.

[ QUOTE ]
12. You hold AQs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call.

[ QUOTE ]
13. You hold AKs in the CO. 4x BB raiser then all fold to you. WYP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it 12xBB.

[sonataarctica]

Let me quickly say these questions are for full ring but 6max chime in if you feel like it. I ask these questions cause i really want answers not because im being picky. And thank you to all who have participated thus far

Why are some raising with the AT and KQ when folded to but folding when limped to?

Why not raise with AT and KQ when limped to?

What are good PT numbers? Whats hands are you "good numbers" people raising with

[Jay36489]

I play full ring, here are my reasons.

[ QUOTE ]
Why are some raising with the AT and KQ when folded to but folding when limped to?
Why not raise with AT and KQ when limped to?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are folded too and raise there is a chance everyone will fold. If not you will likely limit the field which is important. You also hoefully have gained position by virtue of the people behind you folding. This is how you want to play big pair hands (AK AQ AJ KQ etc..) against few people, with position in a small pot.

If you have limpers in you will need to raise bigger for the raise to be effective. Some may not fold and you will build a big pot. A top pair hand like these don't play well against large amounts of people in big pots.

[ QUOTE ]

What are good PT numbers? Whats hands are you "good numbers" people raising with

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a helpful article on this very subject here.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are some raising with the AT and KQ when folded to but folding when limped to?

[/ QUOTE ]
When limped to, especially from EP, people are likely to hold hands which dominate yours like AQ, AJ. Also, hand like AT and KQ either win small pots or lose big ones. So with only a few people in the hand, that is alright, but with a lot of limpers it is not worth it. With a multi-way pot you want a hand that can win a big pot.

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise with AT and KQ when limped to?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it is a loose/passive table. Meaning that you are going to make your most money by hitting the flop and value betting their worse hands. So since they are likely to limp behind you with hands like A9 and KJ and get attached to their TP crap kicker hands, you don't want to force these hands out. And when you miss the flop, you are not getting these guys to fold, so just try to see a flop cheaply. Since it is passive, they are unlikely to raise behind you. On a tighter or more aggressive table, raising or folding would be preferable.

[ QUOTE ]
What are good PT numbers? Whats hands are you "good numbers" people raising with?

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with these questions is that the answers are incredibly table specific. So someone with 25/10 numbers might be 35/15 on one table and 20/5 on another table. In general, full ring, if you are single-tabling, I think VPIP range of 20-25 is fine and PFR of 5-10 I think is standard. If you are multi-tabling you probably want to tighten up a bit more. But you can definitely beat these tables totally lagging it up if you are good post flop.