I don't think enough anymore

[Nick B.]

My play is generally passive so take it for what it worth.

In this hand I would most likely just call down and possibly bet if he checks the river. You have a showdownable hand, so get to showdown.

You aren't going to get him to fold a better hand than yours, and you don't know if you are ahead, so what is the point of raising? There is only 1 overcard that you are scared of, and you aren't getting a flush draw to fold. Is a free showdown really worth the risk of getting 3bet by a hand like 98 that you have outs against? There is no guarentee that he will bet the river, so you may get a free showdown regardless.

[Lmn55d]

even if this is not what Tosh intended, it is still a major reason why this line is sometimes employed instead of simply calling down. If there is no folding equity, the line loses a lot of value imo.

[Lmn55d]

A lot of people say things about this line like he raised "for a free showdown"...but it really isn't any more free than just calling down, as you know. The advantage to this play is folding inferior hands, and charging draws. Sometimes however, a busted draw will bet the river anyway so you are not always gaining more this way. Also, if the opponent checked the river on some random nonscarecard, I think Tosh should bet for value.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people say things about this line like he raised "for a free showdown"...but it really isn't any more free than just calling down, as you know. The advantage to this play is folding inferior hands, and charging draws. Sometimes however, a busted draw will bet the river anyway so you are not always gaining more this way. Also, if the opponent checked the river on some random nonscarecard, I think Tosh should bet for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. I would be more inclined to raise for the free showdown when I have some folding equity. Ie, just calling with AQ on T high flop, the raising a K turn HU. Since I have plenty of outs, but would rather just take the pot. Here he has little chance of improving and very slim folding equity, except against complete bluffs. But has a good showdown hand.

[colgin]

Tosh,

I love this hand post. This is a great example of a situation where if you just knew a little bit about your opponent the best line, I think, would be pretty clear. In the absence of that information, the question becomes what is the best default line of play. Your line is certainly OK but in the absence of information I just call down (or bet the river if checked to and no flush got there). In your line I assumed you thought about what you would do if you got three-bet. What was your plan. Part of what I don't like about raising against an unknown is that I don't know if I will get the "free" showdown if he has a King. I don't know if he will three-bet me with just a flush draw. If you get three-bet you have a somewhat tough decision.

[Tosh]

Interesting discussion, most of my thoughts have been covered. I don't generally post results but seeing as someone wanted to know I will.

He called me raise, and river blanked. I checked behind and he had J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[imported_stealthcow]

i raise the flop

check behind on a blank turn, and fold to a bet out.
on the river, if its a blank, i'll bet, on an A, i'll fold to a bet

stealthcow-

[djoyce003]

I posted a similar hand here a week or two and I think most of the people agreed that calling down here was standard.

[DeeJ]

Obviously you can't find out 100% sure, but if he does this he is probably ahead. You know a lot more than if you do the flat calling.

[Tosh]

Raising the flop and checking behind the turn on this hand is very inconsistent play.