JJ 20-40 - Page 3

Gravy (Gravy Smoothie) · #21 01-09-2005, 03:24 AM

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You are exactly the 5-10 idiot I am referring to, with this longwinded crock of s**t.

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When was the last time you posted anything of value, instead of just being a <font color="black"> dick</font>? How would you play this hand?

schroedy · #22 01-09-2005, 03:51 AM

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In the final analysis this hand isn't nearly as important to a player's earn as finding a way to get a guy to call a bet on the turn with five outs in a heads-up pot.

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I am comfortable enough with my earn, but I regularly call with second or third pair and an overcard kicker which I read as basically 5 outs (plus a bluff/semibluff catcher). Do I have a major leak here?

skp · #23 01-09-2005, 05:56 AM

You make poker way more complicated than it is by making these plays. I would never ever go 8 bets on the flop (or any street) with any hand but the nuts. Having somehow done that, I am not going to fold on the turn if raised. Obviously, the guy you are playing is also a little wacky given that he went 7 bets with whatever it is that he is holding. If he is wacky, he may well stop raising the flop at 8 bets and then raise on the turn with something 76 i.e a flopped two pair - a ahand against which you have 8 outs.

Anyway, all that is minor in the grand scheme of things. I just think that you would be much better off if you eschewed goofy tactics like going 8 bets on any street.

Nightwish · #24 01-09-2005, 08:42 AM

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You make poker way more complicated than it is by making these plays. I would never ever go 8 bets on the flop (or any street) with any hand but the nuts. Having somehow done that, I am not going to fold on the turn if raised. Obviously, the guy you are playing is also a little wacky given that he went 7 bets with whatever it is that he is holding. If he is wacky, he may well stop raising the flop at 8 bets and then raise on the turn with something 76 i.e a flopped two pair - a ahand against which you have 8 outs.

Anyway, all that is minor in the grand scheme of things. I just think that you would be much better off if you eschewed goofy tactics like going 8 bets on any street.

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These are my thoughts precisely! When I play poker, I try to (a) make +EV plays (duh) and (b) present my opponents with difficult decisions. In this particular hand, it seems that Mike mostly ends up presenting himself with difficult decisions. And I really don't see a compelling reason for that.

mike l. · #25 01-09-2005, 10:34 AM

interesting. i didnt see anything difficult about having some guy give me 4 big bets on the flop when i have him badly beat. nor would i have found there anything difficult if it had turned out he had me beat. it just seemed like the right amount of bets to put in against that player on that street, it felt +EV to me given my experience and understanding of the game and this player. and in this case i was right and my hand held up. he had A7 and he called me down when i bet the turn T and river K.

as for the idea that maybe he would stop raising the flop w/ 76 and then raise the turn with that hand, while nothing is impossible that seemed highly unlikely to me. he decided on the flop after i put all those bets in that i likely had the straight. if he had wanted to put more action in with 76 he wouldve stopped sooner on the flop in order to raise the turn or he wouldve put more bets in on the flop.

you make the game more difficult for yourself when you show no balls by being unwilling to invest a lot of bets with a non-nut hand against a player who it is +EV to do so against. people who say "i never put X amount of bets without the nuts" are pussy and playing -EV in that spot although not as much if youre not in southern california, where this sort of crazy action on all one street thing happens to me about once every two sessions or so.

stinkypete · #26 01-09-2005, 12:45 PM

i want to play in california.

Kaz The Original · #27 01-09-2005, 01:47 PM

I want to play with mike [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

BarronVangorToth · #28 01-09-2005, 01:53 PM

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i want to play in california.

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It's wild, for certain -- can't wait to be back out there during WrestleMania week.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Turning Stone Pro · #29 01-09-2005, 01:55 PM

"you make the game more difficult for yourself when you show no balls by being unwilling to invest a lot of bets with a non-nut hand against a player who it is +EV to do so against. people who say "i never put X amount of bets without the nuts" are pussy and playing -EV in that spot although not as much if youre not in southern california, where this sort of crazy action on all one street thing happens to me about once every two sessions or so."

Mike, I agree that hat there are players out there were going this many bets on the flop with the non-nuts is the right move. Granted, there are not a lot of players like this, but they are there.

My real problem with your play (and I do have my own unique way of pointing these things out), is that I just couldn't fold the turn if he raised it. If he is this much of a maniac, idiot, retard, nut, goof, etc., I just cant muck in this spot when he pops you on the turn, with this many SBs in the pot. You have to be right almost every time to make this muck proper.

While I was playing all nite last nite and am not thinking real clearly, I think that your 'reputation' in these games might be better if you showed that you would bet it hard with the non-nuts and force someone to show you a winner at the end, as opposed to going for a ton of SBs and, when the "cheese gets binding", you muck it on the turn.

TSP

mike l. · #30 01-09-2005, 02:26 PM

"If he is this much of a maniac, idiot, retard, nut, goof, etc.,"

yeah but see it's more complex than that. it isnt just that he's a goof and unpredictable and crazy. he is to some extent but he's not completely random. part of it is what i know he thinks of me and my play.

for instance, there was a hand earlier in the session where i made two pair on the turn and checkraised him and a calling station, trapping both of them. they both mucked on the river. the river completed a running flush. he expressed to me that he had been certain when i raised the turn that i had a one card straight draw w/ a flush draw on the turn and that i was semibluff checkraising. in fact, i rarely if ever make that play anymore, but i used to all the time years ago (before i ever met the guy). but because i use position and get caught bluffing sometimes he figures me to be the type of person who is trying to win every pot (and he himself is like this to some extent).

so on the flop on this hand i was getting that vibe from him that says "hey i think youre messing with me and i think my A7 is good here and im going to put in extra bets". well we whipped it out and measured it baby and i won. by a mile.

this time.