How Tight is to Tight

[Hack]

That worked fine. Thanks a ton KT.

[k000k]

That actually sounds kinda condescending to me, that another player would send you a chart. How long did the guy track you for, a few hundred hands tops probably? I bet I can find a 300 hand run in my PT where my VP$IP was 40% and another where it was 3%.

I think VP$IP should probably be around 17-19%, for .5/1 anyway, I'm on the low end of this range. The extra couple % of hands are so close to 0 EV, you lose practically nothing by folding em. And, folding these few extra hands will noticably lower your variance.

[davelin]

I added up the probability of all pocket cards, any suited Ace, suited connectors down to 98s, unsuited broadways and still only got around 19%. Add in times you call any suited in the SB, minus times you don't cold call some of these hands, I still don't know how you guys get a VPIP over 20 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Siingo]

Preflop you save money and postflop you win money.. Even if you are a SLAG you can still be a winning player. I am a SLAG ( and almost a LAG sometimes ) but I am still winning...

If someone looked at my stat then they would have hard to understand how I can win...

I have played over 100K hands and have around 95K hands ( party and paradise ) in pokertracker and I have played at .5/1, 1/2, 2/4, 3/6. I have not enough sampelsice to say that this numpers is accurate but I think it is enough to say that I am winning.

At party have I almost 15K hands at .5/1 ( and almost the same at paradise ). My VP$IP is 30.36% and my BB/100 is 5.75 at .5/1. When I now play at 3/6 have I managed to tighten up some but my VP$IP is still 26% and my BB/100 is 3.25 but my sampelsice is only above 12K hands. But I do belive that I can beat 3/6 with 2 BB/100 atleast.

I play in sweden. That mean I play often when US have early mornig. The game is a lot tighter then (most of the time only 1 or 2 players with VPIP above 25%) and I do often try to steel if I can. And if someone try to steel from me then I often raise if I know that he will fold to one bet if he do not hit the flop. If I hit the flop then I play the hand from there and if I do not hit the flop then I bet. And if he is a player that fold if he do not hit then he fold more than 50% of the time. This give me a preaty high preflop Raise ( 11.89 at 3/6 ) and a high VPIP. This also give me a high win % ( for all my hands have I a win% of 11.6% ).

The problem with this kind of game is if I only tilt a litel or lose my concentration a litel then I lose a lot of money. I play on a thin edge....

If I had tighten up more in the beggining then I think that I would win more now. The problem is that it is hard for me to learn to tighten now but I am working on it. I have to play a diffrent typ of game then. But I am working on it.

So my answer is that yes with a good postflop play then you can win even if you do not tighten up but you can probably win more if you tighten up. And it is easier to tight up now than to tight up after 100K hands so start now!

[Hack]

Is a 19 VP$IP fine?

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
I added up the probability of all pocket cards, any suited Ace, suited connectors down to 98s, unsuited broadways and still only got around 19%. Add in times you call any suited in the SB, minus times you don't cold call some of these hands, I still don't know how you guys get a VPIP over 20 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure...I play pretty close to the loose chart, and I'm at 24.

Others have said similar things: the extra hands I play (that make me a 24 instead of a 17 for instance) are fairly close to neutral EV. People who obsess (and this isn't directed to you davelin) over trying get from a 20 VPIP to an 18 or 19 could be spending their time improving their game in much more productive ways, imho.

[scott2130]

I got alot more responses then I expected but it was well worth it.

First, the guy that tracked and gave me a spreadsheet was trying to help me and I thank him for that. I took it only in the best way. I have a few spreadsheets myself and as far as I could tell his was based on Lee Jones's starting hands.

I was at 1/2 btw.
After reading the posts let me say that I now think it was just to small of a sample size. I am probably a little loose but I over doubled my starting money that day so I had to be doing something right. I also was trying to hard to follow the chart and lost my edge.

When I think about being tight I think back to the first time I read Lee Jones' book. I thought it was a joke to only play those hands. I mean look at the power of 52o. But as I play more hands and get beat by kickers or flushes I am learning that Lee and Ed are right to play only those hands. For me it has to be a process though. At .5/1 I was say 28 vpip and at 1/2 I am 24 vpip. Who knows, when I get to 2/4 maybe I will be down to 20 vpip. I think if I get tighter the higher I go I will be alright. I agree with the one post that in any given game it might be optimal to be loose and throw the VPIP out the window.

Finally, I am caving in and buying Poker Tracker today. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
This will give me the proper info over the correct sample size.

Thanks to all that responded

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Is a 19 VP$IP fine?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess if your table selection and postflop skills are good. When I hear of some posters say they have a VPIP around 24%, I just don't know where it could come from.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Is a 19 VP$IP fine?

[/ QUOTE ]

19% is fine. I'd say anything under 20 is good.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
At party have I almost 15K hands at .5/1 ( and almost the same at paradise ). My VP$IP is 30.36% and my BB/100 is 5.75 at .5/1. When I now play at 3/6 have I managed to tighten up some but my VP$IP is still 26% and my BB/100 is 3.25 but my sampelsice is only above 12K hands. But I do belive that I can beat 3/6 with 2 BB/100 atleast.


[/ QUOTE ]

You must be one hell of a postflop player, 30% is really REALLY loose to have win rates that high!