Red Sox vs Red Birds

[kenberman]

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since now Boston wont be associated with anything special

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except the best rivalry in MLB [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[kenberman]

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One advantage i see is Cards at home have pitchers who've hit before

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of all the factors in this series, this could be the least important

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and only Schilling has any experience batting

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um, so do Wakefield and Pedro. but see my point above

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how good is he actually defensively

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not very

[TRWIII]

That's just the thing. That rivalry is amplified by and intertwined with the curse. Without that silly curse to talk about, the rivalry will still exist in NY and Boston, but I suspect that it will recede to the level of Cubs/Cards and Dodgers/Giants: important in those cities, but seldom talked about outside them.

TRWIII

[kenberman]

the only reason you may be incorrect is the current (deplorable) economic state of baseball. in the current system, the NYY will always be either the favorite or one of the favorites when the season starts. The Red Sox, of course, spend more than any other team (although still well below the Yankees).

so both teams should remain perennial contenders, which probably makes this rivalry a bit unique.

[TRWIII]

Now that point we agree upon completely. The overwhelming amount of money that these two teams spend is absurd and had to be fixed somehow. NY will end up with $200m in payroll next season and I expect Boston to end up with nearly $160m in an attempt to keep up. All while the other three teams in their division have a combined payroll of around $100m if memory serves. Way to keep the league competitive.

TRWIII

[sublime]

They have a much better manager

lol, do you like know anything about baseball?

[kenberman]

Clearer than ever after these first 3 games. BoSox hitters have completely overwhelmed the average St. Louis starters, while the Cardinals haven't been able to do anything against Martinez and Schilling. Rumors are going around that Larussa will bring back Williams on 3 days rest to pitch game 4, instead of Marquis. Either way, I expect more of the same tonight: Lowe to pitch 6/7 strong innings, and the Cardinal bullpen in the game, trailing, by the 6th.

The problem for St. Louis is that the Boston hitters are too patient for them, and haven't been chasing balls. When St. Louis needs to throw a strike, their stuff isn't good enough to throw past Boston, so it either ends up as a hard hit ball or a foul. Grind it out, grind it out, grind it out. On the bright side for St. Louis, the Cardinal bullpen has looked better than the starters. But this may be caused by BoSox hitters relaxing (the last 2 games) with 4 run leads.

TRWIII, to address one point in your last post:

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NY will end up with $200m in payroll next season and I expect Boston to end up with nearly $160m in an attempt to keep up.

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I would be shocked if the Sox' payroll increased by any significant amount in 2005. Despite what many people may think, they are NOT the Yankees, and have limited (albeit very high) resources to work with. The owners have come pretty close to maximizing revenues, and are on record as saying that they will not lose money running the team. Most people feel they are close to break-even at this point.

If anything, beating the Yankees this year means they won't feel as pressured (by the Boston media, by the fan base, etc..) to go toe-to-toe with the Yankee payroll. Theo Esptein is a smart guy who puts specific dollar values on guys, and will walk if he doesn't feel he's getting good value for the money. If Pedro wants $45M for 3 years, they will let Steinbrenner overpay for him. In addition, the Sox have put much greater emphasis on developing a competitive farm system, so they don't have to sign high-priced free agents to play every position. Some of these young guys will be ready in the next couple years (including a couple shortstops).

This creates a formidable combination: a team with a) young, cheap, talented players brought up in their own system who gradually become acclimated to the environment and b) the financial wherewithal to sign stars where gaps exist. Ironically, this sounds an awful lot like the New York Yankees circa 1996-2000. Unfortunately for the NYY, Steinbrenner has completed focused on b), and the resulting team is a bunch of mercenaries who don't care about or even like each other, and who cracked under the enormous pressure to win. Of course, the Sox have a LONG way to go to reach the levels created by the Jeter/Bernie/Brosius/Tino/O'Neil/Rivera/Pettite dynasty.

Starting with one more win.

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Ken

[2planka]

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Pick: Cards in 6


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How's that working out for ya?

It's gutcheck time for the cards tonight. I thought they played loose in game 1 but then lost patience in games 2 & 3.

Gammons was blabbing about boston batters seeing 250 pitches from STL starters and only swinging and missing 14 times. Don't know the exact stats, but if that's accurate it indicates that these guys aren't mystifying.

Boston's had the better pitching so far, along with a more patient approach at the plate. Ain't over yet, but the Sox couldn't be in a better position than up 3-0.

Part of me wants the team that won 105 games to show up tonight - they're a much better team than they've shown - but the sox fan in me wants a laugher to end it tonight.

[RunDownHouse]

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while the Cardinals haven't been able to do anything against Martinez and Schilling.

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I disagree. The Cardinals had the chance to asolutely destroy Pedro last night, to get inside his head and rattle him right off the mound before the end of the 5th. If they had managed to do anything, anything at all, with bases loaded/one out in the 1st and runners on 2nd and 3rd/no outs in the third, you would have seen a much different ball game. Getting out of those innings completely unscathed gave Pedro confidence and let him get his feet underneath him.

To me, the reason the Cardinals are losing is just as much, if not more, what the Cardinals are doing, as opposed to what the Sox are doing. They're making mistakes they haven't made all season, and its costing them games. They don't even look like the same team.

[josie_wales]

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If they had managed to do anything, anything at all, with bases loaded/one out in the 1st and runners on 2nd and 3rd/no outs in the third, you would have seen a much different ball game.

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So you are saying that if they scored 3-4 runs and tied it up it would have been a different game?

Profound...very profound.

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jw