Worst Advice Ever...

[David Sklansky]

You are correct. Al's explanations were not.

[Daliman]

"John Patrick's Advanced blackjack"

"Split any 55 vs dealer 5 or 6, DO NOT DOUBLE!"

[scalf]

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] dali:

play this way; and ya won't get barred..

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

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always tell your spouse the truth

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Easily among the worst advice of all time.

The one that comes to mind to give it a run for its money shocked me by being echoed by Ann Landers a few months before she gave up her column: You and your husband aren't getting along for a lot of reasons, and he also is adamant that he doesn't want any more children. So fix other problems in your relationship by making the choice to get "accidentally" pregant yourself. Don't worry, he'll love it!

Yeah, men really like that. Having a baby in an unstable relationship, and dealing with a problem relationship by sabotaging trust on a critical, deeply personal issue that will affect you and that you'll be reminded of for the rest of your lives. Good move on all counts. Great advice, Ann!

Can you believe I actually read Ann Landers? Tom Lycas or however you spell it, the radio jock, got incensed reading the column the same day I did and did hours on it.

[Andy B]

I'm not a razz player, but I think you raise in this spot with the likely best hand, not to give yourself an excuse to chase. I'm a stud/8 player, and I like building pots early there, but stud/8 is a very different game.

[Al Mirpuri]

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I don't understand why the logic above is wrong. Even before I read Hellmuth's chapter on razz, I always believed that jamming with a good low order to make the pot big (and hence you have value to chase draws) was always correct. Anybody could explain the flaws in reasoning here?

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1. Your edge is either nonexistent or very small on third with three low cards.

2. Even with jamming you just do not have the correct odds to chase.

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1. The advantage may be slim or it might be fairly big if you catch someone getting out of line. So 3-betting isn't wrong for that reason alone.

2. Also wrong. 3 betting specifically creates the pot odds to chase till 5th. This is the central issue, is it or is it not to *YOUR* advantage to 3-bet such that everyone has odds to chase till 5th?

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I stand corrected. Thanks.

[BradleyT]

"Worst Advice Ever"

Anything said on the CardPlayer forums.

[Al Mirpuri]

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I think its important to note that PH says to do this when you have a strong had or the best starting hand. Not simply a good hand as you put it.

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I went back to Hellmuth's book (in the bookstore, as I do not own one nor wish to) and read the whole chapter.

It was incorrect of me to state "good" hands as being candidates for Hellmuthian jamming.

To clarify, Hellmuth states that you should jam on third with your "best" hands, "best possible" hands and "strong" hands. In the actual example he gives he uses a three-card six. However, earlier he cites (A6)7 as a "best" hand with which one can jam and by "best possible" hand he means When you hold something like a three-card ten with the ten showing and all the other upcards are higher.

In Sklansky On Razz, David cites rough sevens as being "fair" hands. More importantly, David has it that you can jam on third he you are going to see fifth no matter what you hit on fourth. David envisages you holding more than (A6)7. Hellmuth has taken this concept and applied it to many more hands than David would. Hellmuth's writing is so imprecise that it is not possible to state just what hands he would jam with though the various definitions of jamming hands lead to the conclusion that they far outnumber the hands David would jam with.

[pipes]

I definitely agree that the Razz section in Helmuth's book should not even be mentioned in the same breath as Sklansky on Razz.

That being said buddy, I think you are slamming Phil's book too harshly. An (A6)7 or even a 3 card ten can definitely be considered a strong hand or best hand given the cards that are out.

I know the limit hold'em section has..well...pretty questionable advice. But in my opinion, the rest of the book was definitely worth the price. I thought the sections on O8b and Limit Hold'em Tournaments were quite good and interesting to boot. It also got me interested in other games such as Razz, because he takes such a basic approach.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi pipes:

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I know the limit hold'em section has..well...pretty questionable advice. But in my opinion, the rest of the book was definitely worth the price. I thought the sections on O8b and Limit Hold'em Tournaments were quite good and interesting to boot. It also got me interested in other games such as Razz, because he takes such a basic approach.

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That's exactly the way I saw the book. The other sections are okay, especially if you're a beginner.

Best wishes,
Mason