Fold AK UTG?

[cero_z]

Hi RS,
In these low-stakes games, you'd be much better off moving all-in UTG with AK than folding it.

[sdplayerb]

There was a big thread on this a few months back that I would highly recommend.
By the end a couple of us advocated limping in preflop with AK. This was more in a deep stack game.
I've been doing this lately and have been happy with this way of playing it.
Problem with raising it preflop is after the flop nobody is going to pay you if an A or K hits, unless they are just terrible.
If you get reraised preflop, are you really going to put your whole stack in? I wouldn't. So then you call and have only a 1/3 chance of flopping and A or K, which again you will get no action with by an underpair, unless the player has you beat, or again, is absolutely terrible.

Then on limping, it will depend on how comfortable you feel playing posflop. Since you limped, it will be tougher to put you on AK. If there is no A or K, you have gotten away cheap.
You also have the option to reraise somebody preflop if you sense any weakness, and many people will put you on AA since you limp reraised (i have not done this).

I've probably limped UTG 8-10 times in live NL games, and each time have been very happy with this play.
Well, except the time a 2 turned after an A high flop, and he had A2. But he had faced two real bets by then (so he was terrible) and I stacked off on him later.

We also decided if the stacks are deep enough, and players tricky enough, you really aren't losing anything to throw away AKo UTG.

SD

[sdplayerb]

totally agree.
I love when people minraise early. I will call with just about anything if I have a decent stack since i will lose that small amount, or stack off against them.
I don't think there is anytime ever to minraise in a live NL game.

[Leo Bello]

Interesting topic, have gone to my series of topics about AK.
Most difficult hand to play here. BTW, my two cents... min raise and limping is working well here.
I used to make big raises, and was beggining to make this hand a break even hand. By limping, I miss more flops but can go out cheaply and when I hit, I am disguised and make more money, paying for the 3 or 4 times I limped and didn´t hit.
It may not be the most profitable, but at least is giving some profit back.

[sdplayerb]

can you please explain why you think minraising is good?

[JohnG]

The min raise is the worst thing you can do. Just building a bigger pot out of position and enticing the field to call behind you.

Limp. 2 reasons that come to mind are that you want worse aces to come in with you, and you want to keep pot small enough so you have the wiggle room to get away post flop.

Anyone that will call a raise with worse aces preflop, will probably also pay off with their stack if you limp and hit the TPTK on flop, whilst giving you the wiggle room to get away if you miss or they hit 2 pr, due to reflop limp keeping pot smaller and also not tempting you to follow through and bluff at it when you miss. So same reward and less risk against loose players.

On money such as 20-30X BB, limping allows you to re-raise allin when someone raises you preflop. This is preferable to raising yourself and someone else re-raising allin. Limp-re-raising may get you allin v AQ. Limping and missing the flop is also preferable to raising and missing the flop. Limping usually makes plenty of flops much easier to play.

On money such as 50-60X BB, limping also helps you bust hands like AQs and stuff that raise you preflop. Call the raise and to check-raise all-in when you hit top pair on flop. They may follow through and represent the top pair when you check and you get a little more out of them, and may get the allin called from hands you bury like AQ.

On deeper money, you limp to keep pot small as you dont really want to be building a bigger pot when you will probably be out of position post flop with room for betting on all streets.So you can limp-call, or limp-fold.

If there's antes, or no ante but less than 20X BB, then usually raise.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Just building a bigger pot out of position and enticing the field to call behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

When UTG minraises, do you really feel enticed to call? I don't. I fold many hands with which I would overlimp. What are some hands with which you wouldn't overlimp, but would call a minraise? If you are in the small blind, do you feel enticed to call for 3 times as much? Do you ever fold anything from the big blind when UTG minraises?

I think a minraise does narrow the field. It gets rid of many random hands from the SB that may hit trips or 2-pair at an inconvenient time. I usually raise a larger amount, but I don't see what is so horribly wrong with an open minraise. Minraising after several limpers encourages people to limp-reraise, but an open raise to 2 times the big blind is not tremendously different from raising to 2.5 times the big blind.

[JohnG]

Well yes, there are hands I will call with that I would fold to a bigger raise. The odds are better, and I would expect to win it often when I miss. But it doesn't matter anyway. A min raise is unlikely to get you position seeing the flop. That's what matters, at least to me. So many better things can happen when you limp.

In my experience, a lot of people facing a preflop min raise treat it as a limp. Generally, I can't see folding anything that would be worth a limp preflop in the same situation, with position. It's more or less a free flop to bust them if they have something, and to steal a bigger pot post flop if they don't.

[coltrane]

By limping with a hand that is presumably better than the rest of the fields', you give infinite odds to the BB to see the flop.....

[JohnG]

I'll survive.