Bet, bet, ... - Page 3

Aaron W. · #21 12-04-2005, 03:58 AM

Okay, what was I thinking? Basically, I want to learn about villain. In particular, I want to know how far he's willing to go with his hand.

BB is new, and I don't know what he'll call with on the river. Something that frustrates me is when I check behind with king-high to get shown a weak ace. It's frustrating because I don't learn the useful bit of information, which is whether he's willing to call with just ace-high.

If BB calls with ace-high, it's not a terrible loss. I'll simply never bluff at him ever again and know that I can value bet the heck out of him if he's just calling (and also I know to take free cards with unpaired hands). I don't mind throwing in an extra bet early in a session (or early after villain sits down) because it helps me to better assess his playing style. If BB calls with some pair (pocket pair, or paired the board), I learn that he's passive against a PFR, which again helps me to assess his style and gives me a big clue about how to play him.

If BB folds, I would guess that BB is willing to chase weak draws, and I know that his flop/turn peels shouldn't be feared (unless he had 35, he was chasing overcards or a gutshot or maybe a backdoor flush draw).

It also makes me look like a crazy aggro LAG if I show down my hand (which is how I played this hand). That's perfectly fine by me. I'll just shift to more value betting and less semi-bluffing/bluffing for a while.

MrWookie47 · #22 12-04-2005, 04:07 AM

I understand your reasoning for wanting to get the information about this guy, but seldom is the information worth the money you pay for it. Frequently you can get the same data for free. Even if you get shown A high here, I think you can still know that he's willing to peel extremely loosley on the turn with a crappy hand.

Aaron W. · #23 12-04-2005, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand your reasoning for wanting to get the information about this guy, but seldom is the information worth the money you pay for it. Frequently you can get the same data for free. Even if you get shown A high here, I think you can still know that he's willing to peel extremely loosley on the turn with a crappy hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. The turn bets are more or less automatic when I know he's probably not going to check-raise me. Checking behind and losing to A high only suggests that I should be betting a pair on the turn if I bet it on the flop. But I would do this most of the time anyway. So that extra information isn't doing much for me. I think it's much harder to figure out what is a good value bet on the river and what isn't.

jrz1972 · #24 12-04-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, what was I thinking? Basically, I want to learn about villain. In particular, I want to know how far he's willing to go with his hand.

BB is new, and I don't know what he'll call with on the river. Something that frustrates me is when I check behind with king-high to get shown a weak ace. It's frustrating because I don't learn the useful bit of information, which is whether he's willing to call with just ace-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this line of thinking in the strongest possible terms. I'm not throwing away a BB just to find out whether this particular unknown will call down with A-high when I'll probably play a grand total of a dozen or so hands against this guy over the remainder of my life. If you're beating this game for 4bb/100, you just squandered 1/4 of your winrate on this one hand.

This is a super-easy check-behind IMO.

jrz1972 · #25 12-04-2005, 12:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn bets are more or less automatic when I know he's probably not going to check-raise me. Checking behind and losing to A high only suggests that I should be betting a pair on the turn if I bet it on the flop. But I would do this most of the time anyway. So that extra information isn't doing much for me. I think it's much harder to figure out what is a good value bet on the river and what isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice that *if* this situation happens to come up again, the information you spent 1bb to get *may* allow you squeeze in an extra value bet that *may* recoup your loss on this hand.

That's way too much of a parlay to make this kind of play routinely, I think.