affects of 2+2 on me

[bossJJ]

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I am referring only to catholicism since you have that partial background. How is God being inconsistent just because some people believe things contrary to what He has revealed, whether weird or not? He is consistent, people aren't.

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The problem is, how can we know what has actually been revealed from God? Jews, Christians and Muslims all claim that God said different things. How can we know which, if any, alleged "holy" book really is from God?

According to Christian theology, God is not consistent at all. He supposedly gave a "new testament" that completely contradicts everything He had said in the "old testament."

For example, according to the Hebrew bible, sincere repentence alone atones for sins committed; God is one, He is not a man, and we are to worship Him alone; God is "near to all those who call upon Him" and no mediator is necessary; We Jews are to observe Torah law forever and to go to our own sages for questions of interpretation; We must not follow anybody like Jesus or the gt authors who tell us not to follow Torah Law; The messiah will usher in an age of world peace and universal knowledge of God - He won't atone for our sins because that's just not his role, as God forgives us our sins when we repent. Jesus' alleged death couldn't atone for sin.

However, God was either lying about all this, or just changed His mind and changed the rules completely. He supposedly gave a new "truth" that is the complete opposite of everything He had said before, and that Jews should now follow the type of person that He had commanded us not to follow, and that we know longer have to follow laws that He had said were eternal.

If God really does change His mind and change the rules; if He send "messiahs" or "prophets" to establish new religions and explain the new rules, then you have no way of knowing if Christianity is still the correct religion to follow. Maybe Mohammed and Joseph Smith really were a prophets from God, and therefore you are disobeying God by continuing to follow Jesus and remaining a Christian.

Many people have claimed to have received revelation from God. If God really does keep changing His mind, then we have no way of knowing what the current "truth" really is.

None of this is a problem for Jews. We believe that God doesn't lie or change His mind, so what He told us in the Hebrew bible is still true today.

[OrianasDaad]

[ QUOTE ]
Such a nice man. But Not Ready thinks you are probably going to hell. And Bossjj thinks you are probably going to heaven (as do Sklanskians). Even though your beliefs are far closer to his. Don't you find that unsettling?

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It's even more unsettling that people actually value the opinions of others more than what they believe themselves, if they decide to think about it at all.

I believe that the universe was engineered, and the chance of all this happening randomly is less than the chance of God existing.

As far as religion, well... let's just say that anything made by man to represent the will of God is likely to screw something up seriously.

All other things being equal - I'm an athiest. I just happen to believe in God.

[bossJJ]

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Since Christianity spent its first 300 years in persecution and martyrdom facing oppression from the governing authority of Roman society, this would not seem to validate your view that religious morality is just a tool to induce conformance to society's rules.

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The amount of persecution that the early Christians faced is greatly exasgerated by Christians. The supposed martyrdom of some of the jesus' alleged disciples wasn't recorded until a few hundred years after they supposedly happened. They outright lie in claiming that Jews persecuted them, so there are probably some lies against the Romans as well. Sure there was some persecution by Romans, but many just practiced their religion quietly and weren't bothered.

Christianity became the dominant religion because it's what the emperor Constantine decided to convert to. Christianity was a good choice because it told it's followers to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" - to obey the government authorities and just accept their lot in life, because this life on earth isn't as important as the eternal life with God they were promised after death. So unlike the rebellious Jews, they didn't have to worry about Christians rebelling against them.

In the beginning, Hesiod says, there was Chaos, vast and dark. Then appeared Gaea, "the deep-breasted earth" and finally Eros, "the love which softens hearts", whose influence would preside over the formation of beings...

In their effort to understand where life started from, the Greeks explained all things through the stories of Gods, who were personifications of forces of nature or different aspects of social life.
Those Gods had human frailties (anger, jealousy etc) as well as super human powers.

So you see among the centuries that people always had the need to believe in something (Greek Gods, God etc)as they couldn't explain the origin of their existence.

A Greek

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Christianity was a good choice because it told it's followers to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" - to obey the government authorities and just accept their lot in life, because this life on earth isn't as important as the eternal life with God they were promised after death.

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I guess you don't realize that the meaning of this passage is that if you engage in the commerce and monetary system of the empire, then of course you should also participate in the tax part as well. And that, conversely, if you live on a farm and grow your own food, which comes from god, then you definitely don't owe caesar a thing.

[bossJJ]

The meaning is subject to interpretation. The fact is that the Christians did not rebel against the Romans, and later European Christians believed in the "divine right of kings." The serfs just accepted it, knowing that they'd get rewarded in heaven. It wasn't so important to change anything here on earth. Christianity worked great for keeping the peasants in line.

[PLOlover]

Yes it is commonly accepted that most people who consider themselves christians have no idea what christianity is.

[NotReady]

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basically my reasons add up to me concluding that it seems almost certain that the idea of god being the creation of man.


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Many ideas of god ARE the creation of man. The Bible says "Even Satan comes as an angel of light".

All effective lies are partial truths.

[PairTheBoard]

bossJJ --
"The amount of persecution that the early Christians faced is greatly exasgerated by Christians. The supposed martyrdom of some of the jesus' alleged disciples wasn't recorded until a few hundred years after they supposedly happened. They outright lie in claiming that Jews persecuted them, so there are probably some lies against the Romans as well. Sure there was some persecution by Romans, but many just practiced their religion quietly and weren't bothered. "

This sounds a little to me like saying, the persecution of the Jews in Europe throughout the Middle Ages has been greatly exagerated by Jews. My hunch is that your statement would get a lot of criticism from Historical Scholars.

PairTheBoard

[Prevaricator]

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However, 50% is a great starting point from which to read God's word and to pray for greater faith.

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Give it a rest.