50-100 Hand

[mike l.]

"i like assuring the chances of getting in a definite 2 and possibly 3 big bets on the turn with 100% equity."

i never quite thought of that way. that's awesome.

[HiatusOver]

SB bet, CO called, I folded...SB showed 88, CO mucked.

What was SB's most likely turn action? Could any of you see yourself folding 88 on the turn if the tight button followed through with a bet?

[Nomar]

in this exact hand your bet on the turn "may" have gotton the sb to fold his "88" but it seems like cutoff was going all they way...

[elysium]

hi hiatus

no hiatus, no. on the pre-flop, before reraising, you must decide whether or not you will attempt a foldout of the shorthanded field if checked to on the turn. this is not very hard to do since if you are winning, you must go for the fold, but also, if you are winning the pre-flop reraise is correct because even though you build a big pot, and make your opponents play more correctly, they will think that you have a powerful made hand for that reason. they will reason that you wouldn't make the reraise unless you were tying them too the pot, because you have made it more correct for them to call.

they will not think this when you are losing.

when you are losing, your opponents will immediately think that it's a steam raise. this opens a pandora's box of evaluations by them that finds them calling. when you are losing, it will not appear to them like you are tying them to the flop, they will assume something far less advantageous for you if you need the folds. this is also why when we are losing, if we can try not to seem desparate for bets, your opponent's will call when you complete, and you should therefore not make a foldout attempt or representation raise when you are losing. this is true particularly with draws.

so, if on the pre-flop you can reraise, you must go for the fold. if you can't reraise to represent, then you don't go for the foldout on the turn, but instead, accept the free-card. this is one of the very few situations in which maintaining a common thread throughout the theme of the hand is the correct and almost always the only thing to do.

in this hand, if you are winning, you must go for the foldout of the stronger A so that if the river produces top pair for you, it will have the best chance to stand-up, in addition to many other advantages of betting.

instead, you play the turn like you are losing in the session. but then, you should not have reraised the pre-flop.

assuming you are winning, you miss a bet on the turn which may have cost you the pot.

[HiatusOver]

Ely I think your downswing has had an effect on your thought process. Why have your past 2 posts been based on bankroll considerations and if you are winning or losing for that current session? What happened to meat and potatoes hold-em theory?

[elysium]

hi hiatus

your bankroll is the meat and potatos.

[TStoneMBD]

i think raising the flop is superior to calling. astroglide makes a very good point here, but i think there are some points for the other side of the arguement that should be cleared up. firstly, your hand has so much value on this flop, that you dont mind being 3bet. if you are 3bet forcing the CO to fold his hand, you may have cleared up your ace outs, and can consider capping the flop with your 12 out draw to buy a free card without losing much equity. in this case you had 15 outs. if you are 3bet and the CO calls, you can cap it without losing equity as you are a 1:2 dog with 2:1 odds, and if you hit your ace your hand may hold up to be the best. when you are 3bet, you will still be able to collect 2 bets on the turn assuming the raiser follows through.

the free card play has a high EV rate for obvious reasons. you do not lose equity when 3bet, so you should raise to go for the free card. there are 2 arguements against raising the flop; one would be if you were losing equity by your raise, but that is simply not the case. the other arguement is that you may be able to get 4 bets in on the turn when you connect with your draw, but i dont believe that will happen often enough to override the EV of the free card play.

[SA125]

The only thing keeping me from being sure he'd have folded was his pre-flop cap. That was a strong play. I thought he played it perfectly post flop, but capping I'm not sure about.

I think your line of 3 bet, raise and lead, plus the chance of getting check raised from the CO, would make it tougher for him to call. With that big a pot and that big a draw, a turn bet seemed right.

What do you think of his pre-flop cap with 88?

[elysium]

hi ts

free-card play? what free-card play? no free-card play anywhere in hi's post. the raise on the flop...that isn't a free-card play. but that's what being passed about around here as a free-card play....no!

oh no.

[Clarkmeister]

I like this one too. Well played.