30-60 Live KK hand

[jimswarthow]

All info that would have been useful in the original post. your post should have read (There are times where it may seem appropriate to value call but I fold because I just KNOW that I am beat sixthe sense blah blah blah).
My reply would have been yeah that happens to me occasionally and I lay it down even when its pretty big. Sometimes I fold the winner as a result but thats OK as this is a pretty rare occurrence

[34TheTruth34]

you were there and I wasn't, but when somebody fires chips into a pot quickly and with a lot of strength, it usually means that they have a weak hand. Isn't that one of Mike Caro's classic tells? I think I would have called down after seeing this.

EDIT:

just saw the results (how did I miss them the first time?) Anyway, I think the raise on the turn is horrible. But if you make it, at least fold when he three-bets.

[IlliniRyRy]

[ QUOTE ]
as Doyle Brunson states there is something about a poker player - call it instinct, a sixth sense, an innate subsconsicous reaction, that says "hey, fold your damn hand - you are beat" or "raise cuz he's got crap and you can bluff him." I don't know how to put this in +EV, but I have used this process to really let a lot of great hands go

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. I really think people that get married to making decisions only based on pot odds are ignoring a very important attribute that only winning players have, and that's instinct.

[surfdoc]

Why not raise the flop here and see if you can define his hand a bit? If he 3-bets and leads the turn you may get a chance to have your "instinct" confirmed at a little cheaper price and then lay it down.

[turnipmonster]

why on earth would you raise the turn?

--turnipmonster

[andyfox]

Well, there's something perculiar about his play. He's got to expect you to bet that flop, yet he bets into you. And he bets in a way (firing very fast) that wants to catch your attention. Usually strong bet means weak, but it sure seems mannered (i.e., double-fake) here. So he either is running a snow job or he wants you to raise. I'd just call him all the way down (unless, of course, I caught a king).
Might as well fold the kings pre-flop if you're gonna play 'em like this.

[Gabe]

You said somewhere in the thread that you were 70% sure he had a T, so folding is wrong, but raising is wronger.

[Kevin J]

[ QUOTE ]
Now, did I play this bad? No I did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could sometimes make a case for raising the flop, and you could sometimes make a case for raising the river, but there is almost never a case for raising the turn (unless you knew him so well you could fold to a 3-bet and even then you're better off just calling him down and sometimes spiking a king). So I respectfully disagree with the above statement. I think you did play it bad. The sooner you admit this, the better.

[Kevin J]

Does this mean 4 betting is the wrongest?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
QQ or JJ is a big possibility

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why on earth would you fold?

[ QUOTE ]
So I raise the turn and now he re-raises me back. Now I am pot committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot committed? I hate your fold precisely because of what you say above - QQ or JJ are a real possibility (and quite a few other hands if this guy is tilting as you say). When he 3-bets, it is much more likely that he has a Ten. If that is the case, how on earth are you pot-committed here? Have you counted the bets?

Your logic does not follow. There's enough of a chance that he has a ten that you folded just to his turn lead (you thought there was a 70% chance you said), yet had you raised and he 3-bet, you'd think there was enough of a chance you were in the lead that you would call the 3-bet? Let me give you a tip. If you think it's 70% that he has a ten when he bets the turn, you should think it's higher than 70% when he 3-bets.

This is so simple. You call. You're allowed to call, you know. Raising the turn seems horrible here. You let him get away from QQ/JJ (well, maybe not those hands, but definitely other worse hands) and pay the maximum (since for some reason you want to fold for one bet but not for three) when he has a Ten. If you're going to raise, raise the river.

This is sad. It's hard to say whether your play or your alternate plan was worse.