Is this the best way to begin to learn Hold'em? New Players Log

[RED_RAIN]

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I think my post flop play is much worse than my preflop play.

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Something to take to mind. Look for the "ah yes" click in your mind after you read and repeat this following a few times to yourself.

"Preflop is how you save money, post flop is how you make money."

[derick]

1600 Hand Update:

I've finished reading the Quiz section on SSH. Boy do I have a lot of work to do on my game! If it was a school test I'd give myself a failing grade.

I had a series of losing sessions last night. I think I play the preflop fine since any dummy can look up a chart. I get outplayed once the flop hits. I bet into dangerous situations too often and bet too often when I'm holding second best. I'm re-reading the post flop chapters in SSH.

Game Selection.

I've been chasing loose games on Paradise $.5/1. Usually I look for games where >40% see the flop. However loose games seem to attract the better .5/1 players so after a while these games fill up with better players and I have to run away or get eaten.

I'm working through a $100 bonus from Paradise where so far I've lost about $4 playing and made $50 in bonuses from Paradise. On Party I made $13 and collected a $100 bonus playing about 700 hands. My objective is to keep collecting bonuses while I play roughly even while I improve my game. What bonus should I go after I finish up with Paradise? I'm looking for something like 50% on $200 that I got on Paradise and Party.

PokerTracker: I love it! Right now I'm somewhat distracted as I play around with things like the Game Time feature while I play. If anyone would like to see/trade copies of my pokertracker database send me a PM.

Derick

[derick]

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice so far. I come to this forum not knowing the correct questions to ask ... and you guys answer them... amazing!

2000 Hand Update:

I took some time to look at my old games in Pokertracker. I searched out the hands I lost the most money with and replayed them. I now see my preflop game is not as good as I thought it was and my postflop game is horrible. I've re-read the section on preflop in SSH. It makes a whole lot more sense than when I read it the first time.

In the last 2 days I've been booking losing session after losing session. Now my bb/100 over the last 2000 is negative! Thank goodness that the bonuses are making me money! It's taking a long time to work off the $100 bonus on Paradise, I'm only 80% through it and I've already booked twice the number of hands I booked on Party. Plus the $.50/$1 games seem harder in this small sample size. So far I've lost $25 on Paradise but I've made $80 in bonus so I'm net $55. I considering going to Pacific when I work through this bonus. But there are no hand histories so I'm not sure where to go. I want a place that's easy, and is Pokertracker compatible that will give me a good bonus.


For a person of my limited ability I'm dividing my time between reading the books (25%), playing online (40%), reading this forum (20%), reviewing my pokertracker stats (10%) and looking for new places to play with juicy bonuses (5%). Is this the best way to divide up my time? How do you spend your time?

Derick

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you spend your time?

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Just FYI, not anything to try to go by.
55% Reading Forum
5% Reading Books (I feel the forum can greatly make up for this cost)
10% Talking with others
30% Playing

[BobH42]

It's a real bummer to not have access to PokerTracker, but the games at Pacific are UNBELIEVABLY easy to beat at low levels. If you're a new player wanting to get a feel for the game and you have the discipline to examine your game sans PokerTracker, then Pacific is a wonderful place to learn. The best part is that even at the low limits there ARE a sprinkling of pretty good players, so you will learn some things by the way people play hands against you every now and then (though I'm sure it won't be as often as you would at a higher limit at another site). The lack of PokerTracker is a bummer, but if you're just getting started and need to build the bankroll first I would HIGHLY recommend building it at Pacific...you can always go back to some place like Party after you build a 300+BB bankroll for the $0.50/$1.00 there.

[RED_RAIN]

I doubt you are referring to me but it's also good to click reply on the post you want so people know how to follow the thread.

[helpmeout]

Pacific is a good place to start I have to agree.

My progress has gone like this.

Spent 2 weeks playing free money games and learning.

A month playing at pacific and learning, read WLLHE and HEPFAP. $50 --> $300 5c/10c -> 50c/$1 (smashed the games 5BB/HR over about 150 hours)

After a week, maybe only 10 hours or so got my ass handed to me in 50c/$1 (100BB ouch)

Played a bit at pokerstars 5c/10c and 1c/2c NL also more SNGs and MTT and Pacific. Not much luck, played pretty poorly and lost the plot a bit.

Purchased a 21" monitor for potential multitabling but I think it is actually better for finding which games to play in. Eg open 4 tables and watch, join the best game.

Currently reading SSHE(reread WLLHE and half of HEPFAP), waiting on MLHE and going to purchase a few more books soon. I am playing primarily at 5c/10c at pokerstars and am analyzing every hand. Pokertracker works at pokerstars and the games are much tougher, it is good cheap practice. (I already have loose game experience vs bad players at pacific)

My goal is to play short sessions and try to perfect my game. I want to be able to play 4 hours and not make the usual dumb errors I usually do.

After a few months experience and a bit of reading I pretty much know what I should and shouldn't do in low limits so I can pickup most my errors.

The problem is in a game situation you make dumb decisions all the time and not realise after how many mistakes you really make and how much they cost you.

If I am unsure then I post the hand and hopefully get some good feedback.

Over the next month or 2 I plan to mainly read and reread books as well as posts and some articles that are around the place (at cardplayer.com mainly). Play a few short sessions and hopefully get closer to perfecting my game.

I eventually want to get to 50c/$1 party games but I am in no hurry, I still have too much to learn.

[derick]

2200 Hand Update: I lose at playing and make money at bonuses.

Finished the bonus at Paradise. I earned $100 bonus and lost about $25 so I'm up $75 from Paradise. I took the money from Paradise. To take advantage of their new 50% deposit matching bonus I made a deposit on Ultimate Bet. It seems really clunky to get the hand histories into PokerTracker from Ultimate Bet. I played at the lowest stakes I could work off the bonus at 25/.50 Limit. I lost at Ultimate bet. I'm not sure why... Maybe having a VP$IP > 60% had something to do with it. I played only HEPFAP class 5 hands or better, but I think I stayed too long with them. I really need to improve my post flop game.

I put my tail between my legs and ran to Pacific. Home of the oceans of fish. I entered a $2+.20 No Limit SNG and came in 4th earning a few bucks (I think $6)


HELP!

I think I’m getting into big trouble since I’m trying to follow the SSH style of play but not applying it correctly. Before I think I was winning by playing very tight and only seeing the flop with Pairs over 77 and AA, AK, AQ. Now I’m seeing way more hands and not knowing what to do with them. Often I’m thumbing through SSh while at the keyboard and trying to find the appropriate section.

Did anyone else find their game went south after reading SSH?

I think I have been trying to change too many things in my game at once so it’s hard to know what to work on.

I went from playing weak very tight to trying to play tight aggressive. So I find I’m seeing the flop a lot more but I don’t have experience to know how to handle the postflop decisions that come up.


For example from page 96 in SSH I don’t understand this play,

One player limps, the next player raises

Starting with Qh, 7h, our hero calls. Everyone folds to the blinds who both call. The limper calls.

On a flop of Jc, 7s, 5h it is checked to the preflop raiser who calls.

Why is re-raising the best option? (I would have folded)
Are you trying the free card play?
I count about 6.5 outs…

Can someone explain why re-raising is the best option?

[helpmeout]

Slow down with SSH its not an easy book to take in straight away.

Stick with playing weak-tightish until you are 100% sure why you want to do something.

Raise or bet when you know why you should not because you think it is what SSH tells you to. When you enter a pot with a hand think about what could happen and what you want to happen. Not just oh I have A7s and in HEPFAP it says I can call here etc.

You have to start thinking about the game more not just blindly read a few books. I'd also suggest moving down to lower limits and don't worry about chasing bonuses. Play less poker and analyze more.

As far as the Q7s hand in SSH it really isn't useful for beginners. Firstly if there is a raise in front of you preflop then you fold. You also have no reads which is a big factor.

The whole idea of raising is because only the preflop raiser bets(likely to just have overcards), your raise suggests that you have a good hand which might knockout hands slightly better than yours such as J3 or A7. You also want to knockout potential overcards and gutshot straights so your hand may win unimproved.

The pot size is the main factor here, you may be ahead so you try to win the pot by protecting your hand.

[Mangatang]

Excellent post.