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#22
11-18-2005, 06:32 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
Fold. You don't have to win 'em all. [/ QUOTE ] Can you please explain? I really think we are ahead here often. If not, we have a healthy 6 outs against a lot of his hands. Granted, the pot is small, so 6 outs isn't technically enough to draw to, but I think the fact that we are ahead so often makes this a pretty clear raise. Noone has really given a detailed reason of why a fold is right. 
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#23
11-18-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold. You don't have to win 'em all. [/ QUOTE ] Can you please explain? I really think we are ahead here often. If not, we have a healthy 6 outs against a lot of his hands. Granted, the pot is small, so 6 outs isn't technically enough to draw to, but I think the fact that we are ahead so often makes this a pretty clear raise. Noone has really given a detailed reason of why a fold is right. [/ QUOTE ] The pot is 4 SB minus rake. There is a player yet to act behind you. If you're ahead you have reverse implied odds against you. If you're behind the pot is too small to draw to and your implied odds are bad.
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#24
11-18-2005, 07:07 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold. You don't have to win 'em all. [/ QUOTE ] Can you please explain? I really think we are ahead here often. If not, we have a healthy 6 outs against a lot of his hands. Granted, the pot is small, so 6 outs isn't technically enough to draw to, but I think the fact that we are ahead so often makes this a pretty clear raise. Noone has really given a detailed reason of why a fold is right. [/ QUOTE ] this is a miniscule pot, the sb is leading into the field, and if we are ahead, almost every card that can come on the turn will suck balls. We also have a guy behind us to take into consideration. This hand is very vulnerable, and honestly, I don't like the situation at all. If this pot was a little bigger, then maybe I could see justification for a raise. What is your plan if the sb is leading into this flop when there are two more to act behind us, what if the limper had raised instead. Raising only works IMO if we can take the pot down on the flop, but that really isn't gonna happen as more often then not the sb will call our raise and will call it down more often then not, and we are only ahead of the non ace pair hands, but if we hit a set, there is now a possible wheel out there. If the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits, there is now a possible flush draw. if this guy is leading into us with a flush draw, he most likely has two overs to go with it, and he has 15 outs against that, if he has a 3+flush draw+an over he is looking at 14 outs with two streets to come against us. Now take in the size of the pot, and the fact that we aren't in good shape against any hand except for a pair of 2's and pair of 4's, isn't this situation looking more and more like a fold, I think so
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#27
11-18-2005, 08:50 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
We have second pair, a gutshot that's probably good, and a weak backdoor flush draw.
People want to fold in a 3-handed pot?? Please play at my table. SB is at least betting any A, 2, 3, 4, 5, pocket pair or flush draw and maybe a lot more hands than that. We are ahead of most of those hands and we have outs. Plus most of the hands we fear might have raised preflop to isolate the limper. Remember this guy is getting 3-1 to bet two cards leftover from a Mille Bornes deck. Any outs he may have are just gravy. Exercise: This is a 3-handed pot. Compute the percentage of all possible starting hands are we currently ahead of. How can you win shorthanded when you fold your good hands for 1 SB? Easy raise for protection and value. Calling could work with reads. For example if I actually believed UTG would fold overs calling would become a lot more appealing. Some idea that UTG would repeat any bluff or underpair he might be running would also help. Error 1: UTG doesn't have implied odds to call the flop with overcards to my fives. Wrong. If he calls with JT, hits the turn, and goes on to win I will lose 5 SB in the pot plus 2 BB I put in later and maybe another BB out of SB. That's 11-1 I'm giving him to draw to 6 outs and maybe a backdoor flush. As bad as calling with JT might seem, it works because my hand is so vulnerable. Also I want the button. Error 2: If UTG folds to my raise and SB just calls I should take a free card on the turn. Huh? I flopped second pair here. Why would I possibly want to give a free card when one player folds and the other goes on defense? We can discuss whether to bet the river later.
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#28
11-18-2005, 08:50 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] we have 6 full outs? [/ QUOTE ] It's pretty frequently 6 full outs [/ QUOTE ] Which means we don't have 6 full outs.
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#29
11-18-2005, 08:57 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
Easy raise for protection and value. Calling could work with reads. For example if I actually believed UTG would fold overs calling would become a lot more appealing. Some idea that UTG would repeat any bluff or underpair he might be running would also help. Error 1: UTG doesn't have implied odds to call the flop with overcards to my fives. Wrong. If he calls with JT, hits the turn, and goes on to win I will lose 5 SB in the pot plus 2 BB I put in later and maybe another BB out of SB. That's 11-1 I'm giving him to draw to 6 outs and maybe a backdoor flush. As bad as calling with JT might seem, it works because my hand is so vulnerable. Also I want the button. [/ QUOTE ] Absent a read, my default belief would be that UTG would fold if he only has overs. But given your argument for raising (still without a read on UTG), I think I now prefer raising. But like you said, with a read, a call may be best.
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#30
11-18-2005, 09:09 PM
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Re: 5/10 i hate unraised pots
[ QUOTE ]
People want to fold in a 3-handed pot?? Please play at my table. SB is at least betting any A, 2, 3, 4, 5, pocket pair or flush draw and maybe a lot more hands than that. We are ahead of most of those hands and we have outs. Plus most of the hands we fear might have raised preflop to isolate the limper. Remember this guy is getting 3-1 to bet two cards leftover from a Mille Bornes deck. Any outs he may have are just gravy. [/ QUOTE ] You're seriously underestimating how passive people are at 5/10. This flop would get checked to UTG like 75% of the time
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