Live KQo - Page 3

W. Deranged · #21 09-24-2005, 08:13 PM

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My immediate thought is why no flop bet? But then again, why do we want to fold people on this flop? Any K or Q is going to be dominated unless they cold-called with AK or AQ, in which case I doubt they fold the flop anyway. K-high isn't going to be good very often even if we get it down to 2 or 3 players on the turn. Also, a K or Q isn't going to give someone an OESD on the turn if they do hit.

This is usually an auto-bet on the flop for me, but now that I think about it, you have more FE on the turn with the bigger bet.

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The primary reason I like a flop bet is because passive opponents will sometimes let me get the river for free if I bet the flop and check the turn. This is somewhat mitigated here because we are out of position. I don't like the turn bet primarily because I think the J is: a) too dangerous and likely to have hit our opponents; and b) not scary enough to make small pairs and such fold. It's easily the worst possible card we could be betting on. I think betting on an A would be much preferable.

JaBlue · #22 09-24-2005, 08:15 PM

Why do you bet the flop? I can't imagine anybody's going to fold ace high or overcards or anything that you beat. Why is betting better than checking and calling one bet if you assume these guys are all super loose passive, which I would think would be indicated by the preflop action?

W. Deranged · #23 09-24-2005, 08:21 PM

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Why do you bet the flop? I can't imagine anybody's going to fold ace high or overcards or anything that you beat. Why is betting better than checking and calling one bet if you assume these guys are all super loose passive, which I would think would be indicated by the preflop action?

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There are tons of reasons to bet this flop:

1. Opponents might call with dominated overcards.

2. If our opponents are passive I'm not that afraid of getting raised here. If I'm putting in a bet on this flop I tend to prefer being the one putting it in.

3. There's some chance that I can check the turn and get a free river by showing aggression early; this is not a huge result, but if I check now I may be more likely to get bet into on later streets and hence might forgo opportunities for further cheap cards. This is a SMALL effect because we are not in great position but it is something to think about nonetheless.

I think the only way checking is clearly superior to betting on this flop is if we think there is a very high likelihood that the flop gets checked through, which may well be the case against these opponents. In most games if we check the flop is getting bet and often raised.

newhizzle · #24 09-24-2005, 08:33 PM

bet the flop, your opponents are not scared of the jack any more than the pair of 8s, in fact they probly have it, on the turn, it depends how many players are left, but id either fire another or check/fold, the way you played it, check/fold is fine

B Dids · #25 09-24-2005, 09:46 PM

Doesn't seem like a flop bet does anything for us here, so I like that. Better the turn would feel better on a more savory turn card. That said, I don't think it's horrible to take a shot at a large pot like this.

Guruman · #26 09-25-2005, 12:17 AM

-blind response-
this really can't qualify as a semibluff, so you have to figure how often you'll fold everyone out with the combination of this bet and one on the river.

personally, I can't figure this to be a good situation since you could get three-bet and you'd have to fold, bb could lead into you on the river, or you could just get called down by a small pair.