10/25 UB hand

[ML4L]

Hey Ray,

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check on the flop and since you didnt check on the turn.
that flop is not one to get broke to.

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So, in this spot, you prefer checking the flop rather than betting the flop and then checking the turn? How strongly do you prefer checking the flop?

I'll generally check the flop here, because I check lots of hands out of position, but for some reason, when I do, something feels a little off... Do you not feel like it would be better to come out firing in these spots and then to check the turn so that you can make continuation bets more liberally with weaker hands?

Hope that makes sense.... Thanks.

Mike

[partygirluk]

Could someone please explain to a bad NL player why checking the flop here would be a good play?

[fnord_too]

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Could someone please explain to a bad NL player why checking the flop here would be a good play?

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I think it is because you are buiding a big pot out of position with a hand that is now very marginal. If someone has a jack, you are hosing yourself. If they don't, they still may play like they have one by calling the flop and pushing the turn since there are not a whole lot of hands hero would have that involve a jack. The board is draw heavy, so giving a free card may hurt you, but barring hitting a Q, you are going to be at sea the whole way.

Basically the only thing betting the flop really does is get hands you are crushing to fold, assuming they don't see that if they call and you bet the turn they can make a natural looking push and have a lot of folding equity.

If you check the flop, there is 280 in the pot with 2400 behind on both sides. I'd like to know the plan if you check the flop and it gets potted behind you. That is a spot that makes my head spin and I think just folding cannot be too wrong.

If the flop gets checked through I guess you make reasonable bets on the turn and river? I would like to fire like a 1/2-3/4 bet on the turn if it gets checked through, and another 1/2-3/4 on the river, but it seems like pot sized bets are the standard in this game.

[TonyBlair]

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Could someone please explain to a bad NL player why checking the flop here would be a good play?

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CHECKING FLOP
You are out of position with a marginal hand that, despite probably being good now, can easily be outdrawn later and may even be behind presently. This COMBINATION should have you sweating. Better to give a draw a free card on the flop rather than on the turn after the pot size has escalated. Hope it's checked back to you and if not proceed with caution.

In short, with QQ you want to raise PF as you're best. Many flops will look great and you'll take it down. This one, however, sucks and is a common hold'em nightmare. But the presence of tough spots in the game makes for profit. Lose less than your opponents in tough situations.

This is where position is at its most important. I think you have to swear under your breath and check in this spot MOST OF THE TIME. The problem with check calling the flop is that later in the hand your hand is often very clearly defined. Shame.

[AZK]

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Could someone please explain to a bad NL player why checking the flop here would be a good play?

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As Gift of Gab so eloquently put it a few months ago in another paired board post:

"have one pair see paired board play small pot "

The situation was a little different, but you get the basic idea...

[theBruiser500]

how about betting 400 on the turn. by betting 650 your opponent can "prove" he is strong by going all in and force you out with a possible draw on this board, representing what he knows you don't have with your bet size. by betting 400 you value bet vs. lower pairs that a higher bet forces out and could possibly be laying a trap with trips yourself and be inducing him to raise. that bet size makes it awkward for him to raise with just a draw.