Holocaust Denial

[TM1212]

This is a horrible post.

Ignoring these views, or imprisoning the supporters doesn't make the situation go away. And then at the end you say you hope every Neo-Nazi dies, because what they did in WWII.... is that not hypocritical?

People can say whatever they want ignorance is not illegal in America, but apparently it is in Germany.

Also removing Nazi symbols from video games what’s the point? It's like censoring To Kill a Mockingbird because if its racial language. It changes the environment and ruins the meaning of the story.

[Peter666]

The Canadian Ernst Zundel was jailed and deported even though he broke no law due to his stance on the holocaust. That's illegal and tantamount to Nazism.

The word "Holocaust Denier" is left wing propaganda itself. Pro Zionist lobbyists and left wingers purposely try to distort the facts with these kind of catch phrases. I do not know people who deny that the holocaust or some grave injustice took place during WWII against the Jews. What they are arguing about are the numbers, intent, methods etc.

We know with certainty that the numbers of Holocaust victims were purposely inflated right after World War II by Zionist groups to gain sympathy in their formation of Israel. There use to be a plaque at Auschwitz that said "8 million died here" which was changed to 6 million, then 4 million, and then it disappeared altogether. The Soviets purposely inflated Nazi crimes to cover up their own.

The Iranian Prime Minister is stating a half truth by implying that the Holocaust is a lie. What is true is that numbers were purposely inflated to gain international sympathy in forming the state of Israel (1948) which is an injustice against the arabs.

[Gamblor]

The Canadian Ernst Zundel was jailed and deported even though he broke no law due to his stance on the holocaust.

Criminal Code s.319:
(1)Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of:

(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for
two years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Criminal Code

The leading case in this field is R. v. Buzzanga and Durocher (1980), 49 C.C.C. (2d) 369, (Ont. C.A.), in which the accused distributed tongue-in-cheek flyers satirizing hatred and were still charged under s.319(2). It ended up decided in favour of the Crown because even though they didn't have the requisite mens rea of promoting actual hatred, they knew it was likely to and it oblique intent is equally as culpable as direct intent.

The rest of your post is the saddest misconstruction of facts I've ever seen.

[Peter666]

On which of these points was Ernst Zundel convicted after due process of law?

Why did he spend several years in prison for an unconvicted offense that at the most would lead to two years of imprisonment?

And finally, the facts above may make you cry out of sadness, but which of them is false?

[Gamblor]

On which of these points was Ernst Zundel convicted after due process of law?

None, considering he is not a Canadian Citizen. In fact, he wasn't actually charged with any of those things (since I only posted them to show what he actually did was illegal). He was deported because his visitor's visa expired. Simple as that. He made a frivolous refugee claim by applying for refugee status from his native Germany and was rejected. The end. Simple, no?

Why did he spend several years in prison for an unconvicted offense that at the most would lead to two years of imprisonment?

Because as a foreign non-Canadian citizen he is not entitled to the rights of a Canadian citizen under the Charter. He spent several years while the courts permitted him his due process by arguing his status in Canada, whether he was to be conferred Canadian citizenship, and whether he was a security threat as a result of his denial and messages of Jew-hatred, alleging a global "conspiracy" of Jewish blah blah blah.

And finally, the facts above may make you cry out of sadness, but which of them is false?

"We know with certainty that the numbers of Holocaust victims were purposely inflated right after World War II by Zionist groups to gain sympathy in their formation of Israel. There use to be a plaque at Auschwitz that said "8 million died here" which was changed to 6 million, then 4 million, and then it disappeared altogether. The Soviets purposely inflated Nazi crimes to cover up their own."

Please show me pictures of the plaque showing these modifications.

"The Iranian Prime Minister is stating a half truth by implying that the Holocaust is a lie. What is true is that numbers were purposely inflated to gain international sympathy in forming the state of Israel (1948) which is an injustice against the arabs."

"implying"? He explicitly stated as such. Furthermore, a Holocaust is a holocaust, no matter how many are killed.

The only injustice was the eviction of all those jews 1500 years ago, before there even were any "Arabs". More importantly, there has been a continuous significant Jewish community in Israel since the dawn of history. The move of the european jews there was immigration, not colonization. Those people did not set the arabs to work in their fields or force on them slave labour, they simply created their own communities independent of the existing arab communities.

[Cyrus]

You were doing well until the very end of the tirade. (I am pointing it out even though I shiver at the thought of Zipo unleashing his witty commentary on us again!.. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

[ QUOTE ]
The only injustice was the eviction of all those jews 1500 years ago, before there even were any "Arabs".

[/ QUOTE ]

Quotation marks or no quotation marks around their name, the Arabs suffered the second injustice (if indeed one should call them thus) about sixty years ago. What to one people is God's Promise, to the other people is a Catastrophe. (This is actually how Palestinian Arabs refer to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and their subsequent, continuous troubles.)

[Peter666]

Zundel was deported to Canada from the US for overstaying his visa. He was a legal landed immigrant in Canada since 1958. He was "deported" to Germany for being an "alleged security threat" to Canada with only "alleged" evidence as stated in the verdict!!! Considering Canada is a haven for drug kingpens and illegal immigrants who are shooting up the streets in Toronto (the Jamaican gangs) while their cases are being heard in immigration court, the hypocrisy is ridiculous.

This is nothing but a blatant attack on free speech.

And since you asked, here is some photographic evidence for the disinformation regarding Auschwitz:

http://www.picturehosting.org/images...uschwitz02.jpg

http://www.picturehosting.org/images...uschwitz01.jpg


Estimates have gone from 9 million to 1 million in regards to the Auschwitz camps. The real question is: of those who died, how many were deliberately murdered, and how many died of different causes such as typhus?

[andyfox]

"The only injustice was the eviction of all those jews 1500 years ago, before there even were any 'Arabs'. More importantly, there has been a continuous significant Jewish community in Israel since the dawn of history. The move of the european jews there was immigration, not colonization. Those people did not set the arabs to work in their fields or force on them slave labour, they simply created their own communities independent of the existing arab communities."

1) 1500 years ago is a long time to remedy an injustice, is it not? And how can it be the "only" injustice when hundreds of thousands of native lost their homes in 1948?

2) Why the e of quotation marks for "Arabs"?

3) There were Jews at the dawn of history? In any event, the vast majority of the population of Palestine at the start of Zionism (I mean Herzl's Zionist) was not Jewish. It was Palestinian.

4) Of course Zionism was colonization. It was advertised as a colonial enterprise by the founders of Zionism from the get-go.

5) There is plenty of evidence to contradict your rosy picture of the impact of Zionism on the natives. One doesn't have to rely on Arab propaganda, one can read Ahad Ha'am or other early Zionist settlers, Jabotinsky, Buber or other Jewish sources from a variety of political perspectives.

[WillMagic]

Holocaust denial is idiotic, for sure. But laws banning holocaust denial are just as dumb.

Will