15/30 completing the small blind

[astroglide]

he is correct. according to the technical definition of ev, folding preflop is always 0. that isn't to say, though, that you may be gaining or losing money in the long run by doing it.

in general i think the consideration is a little silly, as more often than not it seems to result in confusion or debate. what matters to people is if they will win or lose money.

[DcifrThs]

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in general i think the consideration is a little silly, as more often than not it seems to result in confusion or debate. what matters to people is if they will win or lose money.

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i understand that astro, but they were both talking explicitly about the EV of the hand there...thats all.

-Barron

[astroglide]

i'm hating the game, not the player.

[DcifrThs]

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i'm hating the game, not the player.

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and let me add, "DAMN pimpin' is eeeeasy"
-Barron

[Ulysses]

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until you CALL to complete with the 82s, you have "spent" nothing, zero, zilch. you're ev of folding here is ZERO! not -10 in the 15/30. the VALUE that you GAIN or LOSE from folding when the decision to put money in the pot comes up is 0 in this situation when you fold.

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I am almost positive that this is wrong. Can a more experienced player please chime in?

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Bear is correct. Look at the stats for, say, Q6o in SB, BB, UTG: -0.28 -0.38 -0.11. That should be sufficient to clarify this.

The overall EV of a hand in a certain position is a different thing than the EV of calling/folding/raising at any given point. EV hand != EV decision. Here, we know that EV of folding is 0. Which will result in an overall hand EV of -.33BB. If calling results in an overall hand EV of better than -.33BB, then calling is +EV.

[DcifrThs]

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until you CALL to complete with the 82s, you have "spent" nothing, zero, zilch. you're ev of folding here is ZERO! not -10 in the 15/30. the VALUE that you GAIN or LOSE from folding when the decision to put money in the pot comes up is 0 in this situation when you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am almost positive that this is wrong. Can a more experienced player please chime in?

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Bear is correct. Look at the stats for, say, Q6o in SB, BB, UTG: -0.28 -0.38 -0.11. That should be sufficient to clarify this.

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Ulysses,

what does this clarify? and how does it clarify it? i think you're saying the ev of folding/calling/raising here is different than the overall ev of the hand, in which case you are correct. but what does losing more on average in the BB have to do with clarifying this point? if that wasn't your point, what is?

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The overall EV of a hand in a certain position is a different thing than the EV of calling/folding/raising at any given point. EV hand != EV decision. Here, we know that EV of folding is 0. Which will result in an overall hand EV of -.33BB. If calling results in an overall hand EV of better than -.33BB, then calling is +EV.


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now even i'm a bit clueless. how is the overall ev now less after folding? where did the extra 5% of a bb loss come from?

please clarify your points. thanks
-Barron

[Gabe]

Hey the way the mid-limit games have been playing lately, I think I should start weeding through the Small Stakes Forum. I'll bet there is stuff in there I haven't thought of. Here in Los Angeles the games have never been looser.

[DrSavage]

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now even i'm a bit clueless. how is the overall ev now less after folding? where did the extra 5% of a bb loss come from?

please clarify your points. thanks
-Barron

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Extra 5% ? I'm not sure what are you talking about, but if you fold SB your loss on this hand is $10 = 0.33 BB.
Ulysses is correct, as always.

[DcifrThs]

from -.28 to -.33. that is -.28 bb's so another 5% out of that 100 scale gets us to -.33.

i was looking at the wrong thing again. -.33 is 1/3 of 30 so easily 1/3 of a bb. that is the total loss on the hand. he is correct in that regard...i was wondering bout the other stuff too.
-Barron

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't know how much you want to complain about the quality of the forum going down...it might result in more people thinking that your posts are good.

RH