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#1
03-25-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
[ QUOTE ]
ok, well you might be right that he doesn't understand the game well, but anyone who's just saying to fold this hand without considering all the factors doesn't either [/ QUOTE ] sigh. Public service announcement: this thread has been derailed from the turn action of this hand for a decision that, if wrong, is wrong by mere pennies if hero plays well postflop. when someone asks a turn question, at least answer that question before you throw in AS AN AISDE "I would fold this preflop" 
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#2
03-25-2005, 04:10 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
WOA.I don't understand the game well.I told you there are bad players in the game i'm getting 7-1 on my call and i play better than them postflop.Aren't you getting a little personal?
Just out of curiosity do you take pot size into account when making your decisions?It should not be the only factor but it should be a very important factor.My example of the 10k pot size was absurd on purpose to show if the pot was big enough it can be right to call with a piece of trash.Ice
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#3
03-25-2005, 04:18 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
[ QUOTE ]
WOA.I don't understand the game well.I told you there are bad players in the game i'm getting 7-1 on my call and i play better than them postflop.Aren't you getting a little personal? Just out of curiosity do you take pot size into account when making your decisions?It should not be the only factor but it should be a very important factor.My example of the 10k pot size was absurd on purpose to show if the pot was big enough it can be right to call with a piece of trash.Ice [/ QUOTE ] you're kind of right but kind of not right. you're saying that at 1-1 you should fold, and 10,000-1 you should call, so the minimum point between where you should call is the required pot size. but there are more important factors. let's say a weak tight player open limps, and it's folded to you. the BB is weak tight also. well, in this situation, you can make money by just betting any flop without an A or K, so it would be a profitable call, because your opponents have exploitable tendencies. but, if a really tough player open limped and a maniac is in the BB, then you shouldn't be completing for obvious reasons. the players matter more than the pot odds. also, I might be happier to play this hand against 2 people than 4 people. it's easier to steal the pot and the reverse implied odds on your J aren't as bad. in other words, the relationship between value and pot odds isn't always positive. sometimes better pot odds could make the hand less valuable. in general, pot odds aren't a good guide preflop, because you really don't have anything to compare them too. if you mapped out all the potential flops and opponents' actions and saw how often you'd be continuing on the flop, your implied odds, and average equity, then you could probably compare that to pot odds, but otherwise they're not very useful.
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#4
03-25-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
Ice,
This is my last post in this thread. I'm not getting personal, but I'm not going to sugercoat things either. Like SThief said, there is nothing interesting about this hand besides preflop. The turn you're probably beat, but you can't fold. Preflop, the hand is not worth playing..what types of hands to people limp with? I'd rather have 65o than your hand. Is it a huge mistake? No. But the fact that you presented it without even saying it's marginal leads me to believe you do other things like this b/c you think you play better than all of your opponents, and they probably affect your earn. The point of this board is to HELP each other's game...you have to grow a thick skin b/c people are not going to always agree with your play. I was often flamed when I started posting here, but it helped me improve. As for your second question, I regularly play and beat mid limit games and have played for a long time so I understand pot odds (see some of my other posts where I frequently reference them). That being said, I know I'm not the best player here but do try to give the best advice I can. Good luck. Jeff
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#5
03-25-2005, 02:41 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just to reiterate what everyone else said...this hand is garbage preflop. In fact, when I see someone who never folds his SB with crap, it is a strong indicator their game needs alot of work (exception is if the game has a 2/3 blind structure, like 15-30). [/ QUOTE ] context is everything in these situations. two examples: CDC posted a hand where he limped on the button with J4s. if you saw that, would you then assume he's a bad player? you probably would, and that would be a shitty read. second, when I was in Vegas, there was a hand where I was the sb and there was a CO poster, who was new to the table. it was folded to him, he checked, and the button folded. I raised from the sb with 76o (with a tight bb). I ended showing the hand down, and a local pro sitting next to sfer apparently started commenting on how bad I play, because I raise 76o. well, he also made the mistake of nto considering context. I was against a random hand, a sub-random hand, and a tight BB. [/ QUOTE ] Even so, J5o is trash, the opponents in the hand do not matter. If it's suited, it's a whole different story. I just don't think J5 is worth fighting over. I wait for a better spot.
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#6
03-25-2005, 02:44 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
[ QUOTE ]
Even so, J5o is trash, the opponents in the hand do not matter. If it's suited, it's a whole different story. I just don't think J5 is worth fighting over. I wait for a better spot. [/ QUOTE ] OF COURSE THE OPPONENTS IN THE HAND MATTER. that is the #1 most important factor here. that's more important than the cards
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#7
03-25-2005, 12:58 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
I agree with the others about folding preflop. You happened to get lucky and hit the flop. It's when you get a portion of the flop (e.g. J high flop in your case) where you'll end up with some tough decisions and may lose money in the long run.
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#8
03-25-2005, 01:48 PM
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Re: 10-20 tough turn
[ QUOTE ]
In this hand there were 3 below everge players and me. UTG limped,MP2 limped i limped with my JH 5s in the sb [/ QUOTE ] So I guess everyone sucked in this hand eh? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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#10
03-25-2005, 02:25 PM
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PREFLOP
think about who your opponents are. it's 1/2 a SB to him preflop. he's against 2 terrible limpers. don't fold. you're getting implied odds from them sucking. it won't take much of a postflop skill advantage to make up for a slightly loose call. IMO folding is very very very very bad in this situation. he's not against slightly bad players. they are terrible and have little poker knowledge. for 1/2 sb I think you could turn a profit with any 2 cards
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