30 minute 4 table 5/10 6m VIDEO

[TBag]

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Surfdoc,

Would you mind posting some of your PT stats? Such as VPIP, PFR, steal attempt %, W$WSF, AF, sample size, and (if you don't mind) total hands + bb/100? I guess I'm really just asking of a screenshot of your general tab =P.

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This many be of interest to you if you haven't seen it: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlin...amp;postmarker=

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Wow, very good thread. Thanks for linkage.

[surfdoc]

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bottom left you have AQ raise BB (30/0/.7) flop comes J59 he donks you call Q on turn he checks you bet he folds. Question is what would you have done if a blank hit the turn and he checked? if he bet?

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i am curious about this as well.

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These are tough. Loose passive bets and you are usually behind. I often peel the flop here and fold the turn. Sometimes I just take it to showdown cheap. Occasionally I just fold on the flop but that is rare. When I am on tilt I raise the flop bet the turn and take free showndown to be shown bottom pair.

If the Q does not hit I should take the free card but sometimes I fire 1 bet as the last money that goes in the pot. These guys are retarded and sometimes they get scared by the smoothcall on the flop and check fold the turn. What do they have. I don't know.

[Spicymoose]

:15 - BL - LP open limps, you fold K5o. I think you can complete.

:56 - BR - 2 limpers and you fold T3s OTB with a 75/15/1.3 SB and a 47/20/2.5 BB. Limpers are both LP, and you are up against a ton of horrible players. I think you can overlimp here, as you have position, decent implied odds, and the chance to tangle with some idiots.

1:41 - BL - LP button open limpers, and you raise KQs from the BB. You fire 3 barrels on a (3T9r)7T board. Bad. No flush draw, and any straight draw he has has you beat on the turn. He isn't folding any pair, and your only hope is A8, which might call anyway. There just arn't enough combos, considering all the hands he could have that have you beat.

1:48 - BL - J5s in the SB and you autofold. This is bad. If one limper, you can complete, and if folded to you, you can open raise against a TAG BB.

2:26 - BL - A7o steal from the button and you get a LP caller in the BB. He leads the A33r board, you call. He bets the 2 on the turn, and you call. I like a raise here. He could have been leading with a PP, A2, A4-A6, or possibly some other crap. Charge him, he might not bet the river.

3:48 - BL - K3o in the SB, and folded to you. TAG is in the BB, and you want to decide between calling and folding. You end up folding. Raise! K3o is a strong HU hand, and you might even show isntant profit since he is so tight. Easy raise here.

4:50 - TL - You are given the decision to post in the CO. Do it!

5:36 - BL - You raise the BB with QQ, and the LP BB calls. He leads the flop on a 789 two tone flop, not your tone, flop (we have already seen him do this with K2 in the same situation on a A33 flop). You raise. I prefer to wait, and see what the turn is. Your equity probably is not too strong right now, and raising won't accomplish all that much. I probably raise most turns, but maybe if the J, T, 5, 6 of flush come I just call down. I dunno about this though. He is passive, but he is also known to bet sometimes with nothing. Raising the flop doesn't really help to much, because you have no idea where you stand. See what develops on the turn.

5:45 - TR - You autofold Q2o from the SB. You do have a really loose passive BB, so I am a bit unsure of what to do here. Q2 is still pretty strong, and has 47% equity against a random hand. This, plus the ability to sometimes win outright preflop, and sometimes win with a bet on the flop make it worth playing I think. Raising may not be good because he is so LP, but it might be. Completing could be an option also, as we are pretty sure he won't raise, and we will get 3:1, plus implieds, plus a possible steal on the flop.

8:34 - BR - you fold 97o from the SB after 2 limpers. It is marginal, but you are getting 9:1, plus big implieds if you hit hard. Your opponents are bad, and you can make them make mistakes. I think you can complete this 1 gapper medium card hand.

8:40 - TL - LAG open raises from the CO and you defend your BB with 22. Flop comes 789 two tone, not your tone, and you check and call. Bad. You can't win every pot! There are so many dangerous holdings that he could have, that this is really wasting money I think. He may be LAG and be autobetting the flop, but that is a dangerous flop, and most cards are scare cards now. You lead when the 3 of flush comes. I guess this was your plan the whole time. A 1.5 BB plan to win 2.5 BB. I don't like it. You check the river, what was your plan for if he bet?

9:20 - TL - LAG CO open limps, and you raise KTs from the button. He leads a A47 flop where you have your flush draw. You raise, and he calls. You check the J of non flush on the turn. I think this is bad. It is HU, and he could have been leading the flop with a ton of holdings. He could be on a straight draw or flush draw himself, and you might be valuebetting. He also could easily have nothing, but have a bunch of outs against you, and you don't want to give him the free card. You have a strong hand, especially with your picked up gutshot. Fire again on the turn. The river comes another 4, and he bets and you are forced to fold. This is again the problem with your turn check. He is LAG, and you have shown weakness, he could fire on the river with his flush or straight draw, and you might have lost the pot with the best hand.

9:31 - BL - TAG CO steals and 44/17/1.2 SB calls. You fold K8o from the BB. I am unsure here, but I think this might be a call. 5:1 implied, plus a decent hand. TAGs steal range could be pretty big, and you are not necessarily dominated. I think you can call this, and see what happens on the flop.

9:34 - TL - Loose MP limps, and you fold 97s from the CO. Button is tight, but blinds are both pretty loose. I think maybe you can call here? Your opponents are all a bit agressive, so maybe the fold is right, but I think it might be close. If your opponents were less agressive, I would think this might be an easy overlimp.

10:35 - TR - LP CO limps, and you raise red 88 from the SB. 67/4/.5 after almost 400 hands BB 3-bets you, and everyone calls. Flop is JT5, giving you a backdoor flush, you check, BB bets, limper calls, and you call. You are getting 11:1 here, meaning you need 4 outs. I just don't see that happening. You have to worry about the flush, straight draw, and possibity of BB having a set. Your backdoor draws are real weak, and SB is super passive, yet showing lots of strength. I think you can fold this without a second thought. If BB was more agressive, you might be able to make a case for a peel, but with the limper involved, and the kinda scary board, I think it would be difficult to try and call the flop. You hit your flush draw on the turn, which ties you to another BB, even though your flush may not be good. Fold the flop.

11:26 - TL - 15/14/2.6 after a lot of hands UTG open raises, and you defend ATo from the BB. Flop is 864 two tone, giving you the backdoor nut flush draw. You check/fold, which I think is great against this opponent, as he could easily have you dominated, and you don't have many outs. If your opponent was a LAG though, I might peel one, but it is close.

11:30 - TR - You open raise from the button, and a Super LP SB calls, and TAG BB cal. You bet the 37Q two tone, not your tone, flop, and are left with the LP SB. The turn is a 9 completing the flush, and you check. This is bad. He didn't necessarily have the flush, and you are giving him a free card. You have virtually no outs to improve, but you may be best. Bet the turn, and have it be your last bet. Just because one draw completed, doesn't mean it was what he was peeling with. He is very LP, so he could be calling the flop with virtually any two cards.

12:08 - TR - you open raise JJ from the CO and the button and 53/13/1.2 BB call. The flop comes 994, two tone, giving you a backdoor flush. You bet, button folds, and BB check raises you. You call. Turn is a 7 of non flush. He bets again, and you hover between calling and raising. Raise! He easily could be playing like this with a flush draw, a 4, a PP, or some other hand you beat. He doesn't likely have the 9. Charge him while you can.

Thats it for now. That is half your video, which is how long the video should have been to start with. I will get to the other half later. Try to keep your videos under 15 minutes, and preferably around 10 or so.

Good job.

Spicymoose

[Roy6]

17:50

you raise in SB vs BB with A3s and your bet is raised on a 799 flush draw flop by a 45/18/1.3

I don't know if this is a leak but I always peel here and go to SD if the board doesn't get too ugly. I think we have the best hand here quite often, although the pot is small, so it might be spewing.

18:20

LAGGY SB completes to your BB, you bet the 558 flop with K7 when checked to. Good. The turn is a K. I often check behind here to induce against a LAG, but the board has now a flush draw too, so a bet might be superior. You get check-raised. You call. The river is another 5. So you have now a full house. I don't think raising his bet is any good here.
He might be on a total bluff (like turn flush draw), and I doubt he will pay off here with A-hi or Q-hi. You split with another K. If he would have a 8, he would call but I doubt he checks the flop with an 8.

[Roy6]

another one:

you have K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] OTB and raise a 51/10 limper.

Board is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

you bet all the way and he surprisingly donks the river.
You think a bit and raise. I think this is bad.

You realize that with so many clubs out there, the highest club you beat is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I don't think he would donk with that. What rather seems likely that he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (top pair, bad kicker on the flop), and so he improved to the nuts and wants to prevent a free showdown.

If he is donking with a bluff, he'll fold to your raise.
The only time the raise is good, when he donks a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] worse or equal than T, or QJ for 2 pairs and he calls your raise.
Other than that, I think he'll 3-bet or fold here.
Even if you are strong enough to fold to a 3-bet, this raise is -EV in my book.

An additional benefit of calling is that you can see if he bluffed the river and can take a note (if he just folds you never know if he had the discipline of folding a low flush or 2 pairs or it was just a bluff).

[surfdoc]

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another one:

you have K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] OTB and raise a 51/10 limper.

Board is 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

you bet all the way and he surprisingly donks the river.
You think a bit and raise. I think this is bad.

You realize that with so many clubs out there, the highest club you beat is T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I don't think he would donk with that. What rather seems likely that he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (top pair, bad kicker on the flop), and so he improved to the nuts and wants to prevent a free showdown.

If he is donking with a bluff, he'll fold to your raise.
The only time the raise is good, when he donks a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] worse or equal than T, or QJ for 2 pairs and he calls your raise.
Other than that, I think he'll 3-bet or fold here.
Even if you are strong enough to fold to a 3-bet, this raise is -EV in my book.

An additional benefit of calling is that you can see if he bluffed the river and can take a note (if he just folds you never know if he had the discipline of folding a low flush or 2 pairs or it was just a bluff).

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I don't agree here. Should I be afraid of exactly 1 card in the deck. Maybe he folds but there are metagame things here too. It says quit phucking with me and trying to steal pots on the river. He will only 3 bet the absolute nuts and I can (but may not be good enough to) fold. He will also pay off with some random 2 pair, rivered straight or whatever. I don't need to learn that he had the discipline to fold a small flush because nobody in this game with those numbers bet/folds a small flush on the river. Never, ever.

[me454555]

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8:40 - TL - LAG open raises from the CO and you defend your BB with 22. Flop comes 789 two tone, not your tone, and you check and call. Bad. You can't win every pot! There are so many dangerous holdings that he could have, that this is really wasting money I think. He may be LAG and be autobetting the flop, but that is a dangerous flop, and most cards are scare cards now. You lead when the 3 of flush comes. I guess this was your plan the whole time. A 1.5 BB plan to win 2.5 BB. I don't like it. You check the river, what was your plan for if he bet?


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I agree he misplayed this hand but I think I can find a c/r on the flop. Its more likely that he's got 2 overcards than a PP or a hand in which can push hi off of. I think that if you want to continue this hand you've gotta c/r and bet the turn, its the only way you can get him to fold. If your not c/ring the flop I think folding is your next best option.

[surfdoc]

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8:40 - TL - LAG open raises from the CO and you defend your BB with 22. Flop comes 789 two tone, not your tone, and you check and call. Bad. You can't win every pot! There are so many dangerous holdings that he could have, that this is really wasting money I think. He may be LAG and be autobetting the flop, but that is a dangerous flop, and most cards are scare cards now. You lead when the 3 of flush comes. I guess this was your plan the whole time. A 1.5 BB plan to win 2.5 BB. I don't like it. You check the river, what was your plan for if he bet?


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I agree he misplayed this hand but I think I can find a c/r on the flop. Its more likely that he's got 2 overcards than a PP or a hand in which can push hi off of. I think that if you want to continue this hand you've gotta c/r and bet the turn, its the only way you can get him to fold. If your not c/ring the flop I think folding is your next best option.

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Sure this hand was played in an unorthodox fashion. Don't you guys ever intentionally deviate from the standard line? I think being a little creative at times is important to prevent becoming too predictable. Every now and then it is okay to try to turn the tables. Think of how often you get donk bet on the turn when your overs miss and a third trump comes down and you have none of it. I really felt like I was ahead. Don't ask me why. Just because a board is scary and the pot is small does not mean it is a bad time to bluff. Bluffing in large pots is ridiculous in this game because nobody ever folds when the pots get medium to large in size. Sure the reward is smaller, but the success rate is much higher.

And yes, I am calling a river bet here and expecting to win the majority of the time. My river play was actually trying to induce a bluff. When he hesitated then called the turn I was very confident I was ahead. I was hoping he would make a deperation bet at the pot as the board was scary enough that I doubt he shows down his overs there when I value bet my nut pair of ducks.

[surfdoc]

I am going to get to some of the others here but I think better discussion may result if I respond to one at a time. Many of your points are well taken and I will just let them go.

This hand I disagree:
Villian is around 55/6/.6 for 314 hands.



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2:26 - BL - A7o steal from the button and you get a LP caller in the BB. He leads the A33r board, you call. He bets the 2 on the turn, and you call. I like a raise here. He could have been leading with a PP, A2, A4-A6, or possibly some other crap. Charge him, he might not bet the river.


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I don't care so much if he bets the river. I just need to make sure at least one bet goes in on every street. This is a very dry board and given his play he either has a 3 (very unlikely as he would almost always CR the turn) or often an Ace. If he doesn't have an ace, I really don't want him to stop betting. If he does have an ace I am likely outkicked especiialy since the 3s are paired. I also don't want him to fold to my power smoothcall flop turn raise move. This is a pretty classic WA/WB situation as the only draw out here is a gut straight draw.

Here is the actual hand.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 7.20 BB


Villian had K2.

[Spicymoose]

A2 - 6 combos
A4 - 8 combos
A5 - 8 combos
A6 - 8 combos

That is 30 hands that you are ahead of that will likely call your turn raise. He is super passive, and will probably call with his top pair.

A8-AT, possible, but you do have lots of defense with cards that will split the pot for you.

AJ+, not likely.

The pairs may fold, but they probably won't bet the river, and sometimes they may not call the river bet (normally they do though, since he is passive).

Overall, if this opponent were more agressive, I could see waiting till the river, but with this super passive guy, I like popping him on the turn. Your move does represent tons of strength, but with a guy like this, he usually cant read much more than his cards and the board.