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#21
10-16-2005, 01:40 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes, really, Doug. How do you say otherwise? [/ QUOTE ]My goals are rock solid principles, they are what guide me in every action in life. If they where in conflict I'd be very confused. [/ QUOTE ] Wow! care to share these goals. I'm normally confused. chez 
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#22
10-16-2005, 01:40 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
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I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k.
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#23
10-16-2005, 01:46 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez
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#24
10-16-2005, 01:55 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez [/ QUOTE ]Right how to accopomlish your goals and values can be in conflict. You don't think the nature of this conflict is different than the nature of your version of morality with non moral based self-interest? But seriously I'm not trying to challenge your thoughts on morality, I'm just trying to understand it.
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#25
10-16-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez [/ QUOTE ]Right how to accopomlish your goals and values can be in conflict. You don't think the nature of this conflict is different than the nature of your version of morality with non moral based self-interest? But seriously I'm not trying to challenge your thoughts on morality, I'm just trying to understand it. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure. I've never thought about it much but nothing leaps to mind. I'll sleep on it. Anything specific you have in mind would help. Challanges are good. It seems so simple that there must be a good reason why its wrong. chez
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#26
10-16-2005, 02:36 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes, really, Doug. How do you say otherwise? [/ QUOTE ]My goals are rock solid principles, they are what guide me in every action in life. If they where in conflict I'd be very confused. [/ QUOTE ] What sort of thing do mean by "goals". Are you talking about "do not kill" goals (and don't kill anytjhing even bacteria) or minor ones like I will be home for the kid's party? I can't beleive anyine has goals which can never result in conflict....but I wait to be shown the rror in my thinking!
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#27
10-16-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez [/ QUOTE ]Right how to accopomlish your goals and values can be in conflict. You don't think the nature of this conflict is different than the nature of your version of morality with non moral based self-interest? But seriously I'm not trying to challenge your thoughts on morality, I'm just trying to understand it. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure. I've never thought about it much but nothing leaps to mind. I'll sleep on it. Anything specific you have in mind would help. Challanges are good. It seems so simple that there must be a good reason why its wrong. chez [/ QUOTE ]It is probably only my misundertanding of ethics. But it seems like you have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. I may just be being dishonest with myself, but I do not see ethics like this. On ocasion they are in conflict, but most often ethics don't conflict at all.
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#28
10-16-2005, 07:29 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez [/ QUOTE ]Right how to accopomlish your goals and values can be in conflict. You don't think the nature of this conflict is different than the nature of your version of morality with non moral based self-interest? But seriously I'm not trying to challenge your thoughts on morality, I'm just trying to understand it. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure. I've never thought about it much but nothing leaps to mind. I'll sleep on it. Anything specific you have in mind would help. Challanges are good. It seems so simple that there must be a good reason why its wrong. chez [/ QUOTE ]It is probably only my misundertanding of ethics. But it seems like you have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. I may just be being dishonest with myself, but I do not see ethics like this. On ocasion they are in conflict, but most often ethics don't conflict at all. [/ QUOTE ] I think we need examples. From the adultary thread it seems reasonable that adultary is immoral/unethical and it will on occasion conflict with the desire for an affair. Can you give an example where you see a problem. chez
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#29
10-16-2005, 07:50 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what your point is. Someone wants to smoke but doesn't because they want to be healthy. They want to lie in bed but get up because they want to earn money. They wants the $1000 but gives the wallet back because they don't want the owner to suffer. Goals conflict. We make decisions. chez [/ QUOTE ] Goal - I want to maximize my happiness handles all of these choices for you, except the moral one about the 1k. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, now you're human like the rest of us [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, I don't see it makes any difference. Maximising your happiness before was deciding which way to satisfy your goals the best. It still is. chez [/ QUOTE ]Right how to accopomlish your goals and values can be in conflict. You don't think the nature of this conflict is different than the nature of your version of morality with non moral based self-interest? But seriously I'm not trying to challenge your thoughts on morality, I'm just trying to understand it. [/ QUOTE ] I'm really not sure. I've never thought about it much but nothing leaps to mind. I'll sleep on it. Anything specific you have in mind would help. Challanges are good. It seems so simple that there must be a good reason why its wrong. chez [/ QUOTE ]It is probably only my misundertanding of ethics. But it seems like you have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder. I may just be being dishonest with myself, but I do not see ethics like this. On ocasion they are in conflict, but most often ethics don't conflict at all. [/ QUOTE ] I think we need examples. From the adultary thread it seems reasonable that adultary is immoral/unethical and it will on occasion conflict with the desire for an affair. Can you give an example where you see a problem. chez [/ QUOTE ]Adultery is a perfect example of morality the overlap if both morality self interest and non morality self based interest. I'm begining to think at some point and some level morality is wholly the juggling at that you describe it is not.
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#30
10-16-2005, 08:01 PM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
Adultery is a perfect example of morality the overlap if both morality self interest and non morality self based interest. I'm begining to think at some point and some level morality is wholly the juggling at that you describe it is not. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see what you mean. You have to decide between your two self-interests: the want to remain faithful (moral because its about someone else) the want for the affair (non-moral) When you get the opportunity you have to decide what you want the most, that doesn't add a moral dimensions its already there. How would you analyse it differently? chez
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