Party 55, Who's the donk here? - Page 3

chisness · #21 09-10-2005, 03:11 PM

anyone have a big problem with a raise to 1200? does BB play back here with a wide enough range (or even nothing) to make this bad? how often do $55ers steal here compared to $215ers?

J-Lo · #22 09-10-2005, 03:16 PM

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I'm amazed at all the responses that say to push. This is a fold and I fold this all day every day. I'm not tight on the bubble by any means, but people like opening up their ranges and while it hurts them more than it hurts you, it's important to remember that they do this, and act accordingly. With a player that has 2 BBs and is getting hit up next hand, I fold this happily.

Easy, easy fold.

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How do u know how loose their callin range is? If he caling with 77+, A9+... then this is a +1.2% push... HUGELEY +EV!!! If he gets looser than that-- then you COULD be in trouble...

If he picks up a top 10% of hands (A9+, 77+) , then so be it.. but those free 750 chips are too good to pass up-- it's pushes like these which increase your 1sts and 4ths...

If you want to fold this because there is a guy w/ 2x BB left-- then that is totaly not understandable... it's because there is a guy w /2x BB that u HAVE TO push this. IF u pick up the blinds, u can push next hand with any 2-- that's 1500 chips. This is so standard-- he picked up a MONSTER and u still had a 33% chance of having a 7500 chips stack w/ 3 left.

Chaostracize · #23 09-10-2005, 05:16 PM

With the BB being able to cripple you, the risk far outweighs the return. As was stated, if I had about 500 more and BB had 500 less I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm still in great shape without pushing this. I do not these t750 at this point. I get calls with K high constantly on the bubble, with second biggest stacks; it makes no sense. But you have to take this into consideration. Unless you have a solid read that villain is tight there is no way a push can be a good play here.

BadMongo · #24 09-10-2005, 05:24 PM

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As I stated previously, I would call w/ AK. Even though the ICM analysis shows it to be slightly -$EV I don't think it's a terrible play.

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It amazes me that even with the wealth of information regarding ICM on this board, people still makes statements like this.

BadMongo · #25 09-10-2005, 05:32 PM

I think this is an easy push at the 55s. If this was an 11 or a 22, I would agree with you, but most players at the 55s are competant enough to know they can't call with K-high in that spot.

Like I said initially, this is very read dependent on the BB, but as long as he's not a donk I'm shoving my chips in there. You just can't pass up that much +EV because its "too risky".

Edit: also,

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The only read I remember having was that BB seemed solid

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Iamafish · #26 09-10-2005, 05:34 PM

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With the BB being able to cripple you, the risk far outweighs the return. As was stated, if I had about 500 more and BB had 500 less I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm still in great shape without pushing this. I do not these t750 at this point. I get calls with K high constantly on the bubble, with second biggest stacks; it makes no sense. But you have to take this into consideration. Unless you have a solid read that villain is tight there is no way a push can be a good play here.

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This is my exact thinking.

You don't NEED the blinds in this spot.

And if you WANT them, you can get the from UTG.

Its also going to be a push fest when you get ITM, just because you have a big stack does (if you win your pushes = somewhere around t5000) doesnt give you a better chance to win coin flips (and thats IF you make it ITM).

BadMongo · #27 09-10-2005, 05:39 PM

It's not about needing the blinds. It's about taking advantage of a +EV spot. Do you like money? This situation is saying, "here, have some money"... and you're saying, "no thanks, I don't like money."

Iamafish · #28 09-10-2005, 05:45 PM

.....What are you talking about?

The situation is, wanna flip a coin?

EDIT: This one I'd like to say depends on style of play. Im sure all kinds of good players have different views, and especially if you were actually sitting at that table.

FlyWf · #29 09-10-2005, 05:46 PM

No way you're stealing from UTG next hand. He has 2 BB. Play money SNG players will call that push getting almost 5 to 1. This is a pretty good stealing spot, though I'd still recommend a fold.

Iamafish · #30 09-10-2005, 05:50 PM

I thought about that also. So thats why Im leaning on reads more.

Im sure everyone would have different thoughts if they were actually sitting there.

EDIT: FlyWF brought to my attention that, these blinds are big, and yes UTG and other shorty would pretty much call a push. Basically everyone has a wider range. This is a difficult hand, for me atleast, that I can't make out away from the table.