77 flop decision

[Lawrence Ng]

If you wanna play raising games and head games, raise the turn, not the flop especially if the SB thinks you are an OK player.

Lawrence

[elindauer]

This looks like a super-easy fold. Calling for set-value doesn't make sense as you can easily be drawing dead already.

Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
i did something i used to do too much but now dont do enough in these scenarios. i raised.

any good reasons to do that??

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, there's a small chance you can get QQ to fold and get it heads up with a guy who, sadly, probably still has you beat. Personally, I think calling is better than raising as you at least come close to break even drawing for just a set and maybe you get a free card.

I'd say folding > calling > raising.

my 2 cents.
Eric

[amulet]

yes, you are usually behind here, playing to 2 outs and hoping to win through shreer aggression. over time, playing when you are behind is costs you money.

[vmacosta]

"If you wanna play raising games and head games, raise the turn, not the flop especially if the SB thinks you are an OK player."

I cant imagine a turn raise not getting called down (unless 77 is still the best hand). In big pots like this, PPs that would fold to a raise usually c/c the big bet streets to ensure showdown. Raising the autobet on the flop, on the other hand, has some merits except, as others have said, getting 3-bet sucks. In the heat of the moment I'd probably just peel n the flop and fold turn UI but maybe I ought to raise this flop once in a while.

[vmacosta]

How did the rest of the hand play out?

[drbk2]

I think the preflop raiser can have a wide range of hands obviously. I think the SB's hand range is not wide at all. If he's a decent, semi taggish guy who thinks you play ok, he's capping here with very few hands.

I think the play here is to call and fold to a bet from either player on the turn. I think it's a little too early to fold since the pot is so large and you got position and you have a slight chance of being ahead and you might hit a 7 on the turn that would likely be good. I think raising is a bad idea because the small blind will probably recognize that you yourself can have a wide variety of hands here. If you choose to raise at all, I say do it on the turn, but I would be done with this hand on the turn if i don't improve.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
over time, playing when you are behind is costs you money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh jeez. Good luck in this thread, amulet.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
"You have ESP and know that your opponents have QQ and 99 and will both fold on the turn???"

maybe they have some other hands too right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course, I was joking... *but*, when I read this:

"semi-taggish sb who thinks i play okay caps it"

I certainly don't expect to be ahead very often if ever. Is he really capping with AJ out of the blinds?

I don't think seeing a turn card is a mistake... but I am not sure what raising accomplishes in this spot.

[mike l.]

he could have AQs, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, some other pairs sometimes, some other A hands sometimes, rarely on the other ones, but not so rare as to say they dont count. the other guy can have all sorts of hands. my raise w/ the 77 is mostly an attempt to get sb to lay down some big pairs that beat mine and make AQs pay. if he has QQ or JJ the presence of the other player in the pot might falsely convince sb i cant be bluffing or making a play. so all i have to do is convince him i hold AK or KQ, or even some other hand with a K. it's not a play i like to try often, it takes exactly a good enough player, a player who prides himself in being able to read hands and stay detached and make the right play without thinking "i damn well capped this preflop, im seeing a damn showdown!" like most players do.