Letter to a compulsive gamber (anonymous and long)

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Al, I don't want to take anyone's grocery money, either. But neither am I going to leave a good game because this poor soul sits down at the table. It's not my responsibility to save him, it's his.

[DrewOnTilt]

If you read the orignal post, you will see that it clearly states that my single reason for posting anonymously was to not come across as a saint or hero. I posted it with no intention of ever laying claim to it, or even participating in the discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
I can guarantee that a small percentage of scumbag players would feel no remorse at all about taking your every dime.

Awful high and mighty coming from someone who doesn't have the cojones to put his/her own name to the post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that some people would disagree with some or all of what I wrote. That's fine with me, but now I've been accused of being high and mighty because I made a sincere effort not to appear high and mighty. Apparently, my balls are small as well. Great. Now I suppose I'll claim my post.

I'm no hero, and I am one of the imperfect mortals. There, I said it. My intention was not to appear high and mighty; if anyone thinks differently, then there is nothing that I can or will say or do to change that opinion.

Regardless, I am happy to see that my post has sparked an interesting discussion. On the one hand, some respondents seem to agree with my original post in its entirety. On the other hand, others say that poker is war, and that compassion should be dropped once the battle lines are drawn. Both arguments are valid.

In spite of my described experience, I still will not assume that a maniac is an addict just because he plays like a maniac, nor should anyone else. However, I do believe that most of those who tend towards the second of the aforementioned opinions would still feel some sympathy after seeing a saddening display of addiction. "Scumbag" refers to those who simply would not care at all. I believe that the "scumbags" are few and far between.

From my original post:
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I am ashamed to admit that I was disappointed that you could not get more money. Obviously you could not afford to lose the money that I took from you, but at the time it did not bother me. I now feel like a total jackass for my lack of sympathy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: I was caught up in the rush of the battle, as any good poker player would be. It was not until long after realizing the whole truth that I started to feel a bit differently.

Poker is, after all, war. I am out to win all of my opponent's money. Remember, though, that there are rules of engagement. A fish and an addict are two different things.

[Hermlord]

Great discussion. I tend toward the view that once you're at the table, my goal is to bust you. However, I fully respect the opposing view, because 1) I am a hippie and want everyone to dance around with rainbows and sunshine; and 2) when you know someone has a serious problem, it raises ethical questions that go beyond poker.

For example, lets say you could cheat and know with 100% certainty that you would not get caught. Many would not take this +EV play because it violates ethical standards that go beyond poker. Similarly, if you know someone will suffer greatly from their gambling problem, that is real pain well beyond the table.

Unfortunately I have no idea what can be done. OP is right that leaving will just let someone else score those chips. I thought about informing a floor or manager or something, but decided that I would not feel comfortable doing this to a stranger (if it was a friend I would make every effort to stop them long before they sat down). I guess the sad truth is that you can't help everyone. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't want to.

Just my thoughts.

[coffeecrazy1]

Hermlord's post reminded me of something in the original post that bears mentioning: You should not feel ashamed that you wanted to take his money...that in the heat of battle, as you put it, you wanted to destroy.

It does not make you a bad person. It makes you the shark that many of the 2+2'ers are. Good poker players are predatory by nature. You never see predators apologize in the wild.

That said, we are not animals and we can reason. So yes, again, I see your point and agree that it makes me sad. But...in any competition...game, sport, whatever...you can be the sweetest person off the field(for example, Reggie White) and a demon on the field.

It doesn't make you less of a person. It just means that every action has context. So no shame about taking someone's money at the table.

[BusterStacks]

Hmm... this post is thought-provoking. I'm usually very opinionated, but on this topic I don't know where I stand. I do not feel sorry for the gambler, I feel sorry for those who care about him or worse, depend on him.

[PatJ]

An elderly man in a motorized wheelchair-cart-dealie-thing sat down on my right. He hemmoraged chips onto the table. He went through his first rack before i got a playable hand. He called everything and raised with any pair. He couldn't see his hole cards so he'd lift them off the table towards his face. I'd concentrate on my chips, stare politely away and try as inconspicuously as possible do anything but see his cards. Trying not to i'd still see his cards half the time, but i couldn't sit at the table blindfolded.

He went through 700 dollars at a 4-8 table in what must be record time. I felt like the pinata burst and the rest of us were just racing to clear the candy off the table. It wasn't even a contest, the guy had no chance, and he kept coming as long as he had cash in his wallet.

I approached Eric, Ocean's graveyard floorman and told him to look out for the guy. If he's rich and doing this for fun then let me know whenever he sits down - otherwise, keep an eye on this guy because not only is he bad but he flashes his cards which isn't fair to anyone and even less so to the half of the table that can't see them.

Later another player and i were discussing the guy and he was saying how jealous he was of my being able to see the guy's cards. The guy's cards were irrelevent. My benefit was strictly positional: re-raising his meaningless bets got me heads up. Few players appreciate and adjust to isolation moves at this level and it won me a nice bit of money without ever bothering to look at the poor guy's cards.

I'm sure the case is different at other casinos/cardrooms but i believe that some floor people will do the right thing and watch out for a player like this. Was it right for me to possibly spoil everyone else's fun by initiating what might get this guy banned?

It fits in with the harsh, but honest competition that coffee was talking about. In the arena anything goes, but if someone is obviously not mentally of physically fit for the level of competition they should be helped in whatever way possible, at least over to the 1-2 table where they can enjoy losing their money for a longer period of time.

When is it appropriate to speak up? Who knows, but i'll try to help you as much as possible, but if you're at the table i'll do my best to make sure i end up with your money instead of anyone else - count on it.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
In spite of my described experience, I still will not assume that a maniac is an addict just because he plays like a maniac, nor should anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

When did the maniac aspect enter the picture. In your original post you mentioned that he bet haphazardly.

What difference does it make if an addict is a maniac, calling station or whatever?

[tek]

In your original post you state that you are going to donate money to GA through payroll deductions. That's great.

Anonymous help for those voluntarily entering a 12 Step program is the best way to help.

Getting involved personally is the worst way to help. Back in my younger days I had a friend who was in NA. I went to a few meetings to learn what that stuff was about and to be supportive.

Kudos to them for trying to help themselves. But you know they are still people, not holy angels. Many will take advantage of people on the inside and outside of the programs even if they successfully stay on the wagon.

Just because they enter the programs does not mean they are safe to deal with. In fact they are less safe to deal with because many people will let their guard down thinking these people are "trying to be good people" and act like they are good with their noble-sounding steps.

At least with sharks you know what you are dealing with. 12 Step people will bite the hand...

[tek]

More to add:

If you try to get someone to join a 12 step, they will probably resent you for interfering because they "don't have a problem". You could lose them as a friend and they will continue with their problem.

If they do join, they will sooner or later try to get YOU to quit whatever it was they had a problem with. This to will break the friendship most likely. If you don't have the same problem, they will determine what problem you do have (as my former NA friend did because I was never into drugs) and hound you into going to the appropriate 12 step for that. What's good for the goose...

From my personal experience with my former friend and the member of the meetings I observed, as well as the gossip I heard about the meeting member (a no-no but 12 step people do gossip outside the meetings and many know each other from work, church, etc...) I can tell you first hand:

Mind your own business.

[warlockjd]

I have never had these thoughts when on a 100BB losing streak.

Hmm...