folding is easy

[private joker]

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I don't make that preflop call.

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[Evan]

i'd fold preflop and I'd fold the river. I folded twice as much as you in this hand, therefore foldign is easier for me than it is for you, therefore I win.

[nolanfan34]

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i'd fold preflop and I'd fold the river. I folded twice as much as you in this hand, therefore foldign is easier for me than it is for you, therefore I win.

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Being that it's your birthday, we'll just let you believe anything you want to believe today. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regarding the PF call, personally for me, a mediocre player, if it's slightly profitable to call, that's offset by the fact that I probably don't play optimally post flop when I play 4-tables. That leads me to fold.

[Argus]

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read peter_rus's posts, can't find the exact one but do a search. Any two suited from the BB with at least one coldcaller is most likely showing a small profit, with two or more colcallers it showing a decent sized profit. Not only are you getting 8-1, you are also against someone who likes their hand pf and that increases your implied odds as well.

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Here it is. I try to keep tabs on classic threads - I think this is one of them.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hey, just because nate says so doesn't make it right. he's a cubs fan afterall.

in all seriousness though, unless you're working on some kind of metagame function of your game, this preflop call should be +EV. even if you only played to flop a flush/draw and twopair or better and even folded on 862 flops, it should still be profitable.

[CallMeIshmael]

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No, I play this one.

The river fold...sure.

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[pfkaok]

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even if you only played to flop a flush/draw and twopair or better and even folded on 862 flops, it should still be profitable.

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I agree with this, esp if UTG isn't a limp-reraiser.

5 people in you're getting damn good odds. I'm with Nate though, I probably make crying call here on river in the heat of the battle when I'm multitabling without even thinking about it.

Playing 6 games with no PT must be pretty hard, I've found myself changing tables quite a bit the last few weeks, so I'm sure you'd get stuck at a lot of not very good games when you don't have stats.

[private joker]

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hey, just because nate says so doesn't make it right. he's a cubs fan afterall.

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Ah, and therein lies the thorn. I too enjoy the Cubbies (though not as much as the Dodgers, but also I prefer basketball and soccer to baseball). Anyway, with Nate and Evan on my side, it can't be THAT wrong. I mean, we're not all donks for folding this.

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even if you only played to flop a flush/draw and twopair or better and even folded on 862 flops, it should still be profitable.

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Take out the first "even" and I like this sentence. It's probably a very very thin but positive EV play to call preflop, but only if you play perfect post and can get away fast -- the extreme version being if you don't flop 2 pair/trips or a flush draw.

In this hand, it cost you $90 because you flopped bottom pair/no kicker and continued with the hand. You were a dog on every street and finally put yourself to sleep on the river. Not saying I don't like the post-flop play -- I think it's good -- but that 84s shows almost all of its value when it really nails the flop. I think the safe play is to muck preflop, not that you've ever been one to play it safe.

[jason_t]

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hey, just because nate says so doesn't make it right. he's a cubs fan afterall.

in all seriousness though, unless you're working on some kind of metagame function of your game, this preflop call should be +EV. even if you only played to flop a flush/draw and twopair or better and even folded on 862 flops, it should still be profitable.

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You are 5.55:1 to flop a flush draw (probability of this is .109) or flush (probability of this is .008) or two pair, trips, a full house or quads. If you flop a flush, another heart will hit by the river 31% of the time giving you roughly 70% equity and if you flop a flush draw your equity is at most 35%. I believe that these numbers all combine to suggest that folding is correct if the above stated is your goal. I don't have the time to complete the analysis right now but hopefully this can get someone else started.

[PokerBob]

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different table about the same time as my AA hand though. i really hope most of you fold this preflop.



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Fixed your post.

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imo the call is easy.