Mein Kampf

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[Gamblor]

It's a well documented psychological phenomenon that drives people who are in contact for extended periods of time with another person (via interviews, biographical research, or a posthumous best-seller) tend to empathize with his "Kampf", and begin to "see where he's coming from."

That is why I suggest none of you read it. That information is better off destroyed. To each his own, but the more people that read about the Jewish exploitation of markets, the complete lack of Jewish contribution to culture, etc. etc. the more and more people will start to believe it. You tell any lie often enough and people believe it.

For example:

Pedagogy of Hate
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook
January 4, 2004

If you want to know what's really at the heart of the Palestinian conflict with Israel, don't ask the politicians or the diplomats. Go to the new experts: Palestinian children. Unlike the rest of the world, they've been paying close attention to what their leaders and educators have been teaching them and they are ready to practice what they have been taught.

For instance, children interviewed on PA TV last week state clearly and without reservation that Israel has no right to exist, and that their goals for which they're willing to sacrifice their lives is Israel's destruction and the expulsion of all Israelis.

"They [the Jews] came to take Palestine, that is Tel-Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa, Acco, Ramle. All these cities belong to Palestine," one youth explains in the broadcast, echoing years of standard Palestinian Authority (PA) indoctrination. And because he is convinced that Israel has no right to exist: "We hope, hope, hope and I emphasize these things, that the Arab countries and the foreign countries, all the countries of the world, will support the Palestinians and will expel the Israelis."

"We must expel all Israelis from Palestine. Because Israel - there is nothing called 'Israel' in the world. The Israelis [came] from Holland, America, Iran."

The children are seen promising they will keep fighting, generation after generation, "until they liberate Palestine."

Furthermore, they don't fear death in the struggle because it is Shahada - Death for Allah. "Even if all the Palestinian children, Palestinian youth, Palestinian women, and Palestinian men die, we will not surrender!"

None of this is surprising to anyone who has been paying attention to what goes on in the PA educational system and its educational TV. Israel is erased from PA maps, schoolbooks and historians deny Israel's history and right to exist, and educators at all levels teach that Israel is a foreign colonial implant.

Despite PA claims to the contrary, its textbooks continue to delegitimize Israel and dismiss it as a foreign occupier: "Palestine faced the British occupation after the First World War in 1917, and the Israeli occupation in 1948." [National Education, Sixth Grade, p. 16]. Children are taught that all of Israel is part of "Palestine". For example: "Among the famous rocks of southern Palestine are the rocks of Beersheba and the Negev." About "Palestine's" water sources children are taught: "The most important is the Sea of Galilee..." [Our Beautiful Language, Grade 6, Part A, p. 64; National Education, Sixth Grade, pp. 9-10].

Such messages of delegitimization have been affirmed by Prime Minister Ahmad Qurei. He is on record as rejecting the idea of Israel as a Jewish state. "President Bush said that Israel is a Jewish state, which is a cause for our concern. This should not have been said." [Al-Nahar-Lebanese and Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, June 15, 2003].

PA affiliated historians frequently appear on educational TV to reinforce this message. Just last week historian and educational TV host Dr. Isam Sisalem reiterated what he has said on numerous broadcasts, that Jews " . . . have no history or connection to this land" and are nothing but a "cancer" planted by Britain to control the Middle East.

In the same educational broadcast last week, another historian resurrected The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the infamous anti-Semitic forgery citing it as one of the foundations of the First Zionist Congress in 1897.

"...The Zionist movement began at the Basel Congress to plan the exploitation of the powers struggle, and the struggle of Europe over the Middle East..." said Dr. Riad Al-Astal, a history lecturer at Al-Azhar University in Gaza.

Consequently when we view children on PATV who say they want to destroy Israel, to liberate "Tel-Aviv, Jaffa, Haifa, Acco, and Ramle," and to expel the Jews, we are seeing children who are accurately regurgitating the sentiments inculcated and reinforced throughout PA society.

Indeed, years of anti-Israel indoctrination have been alarmingly effective in teaching PA youth that the Jews have no link to Israel, that Israel has no right to exist and that the overriding goal of the next generation -- even at the cost of their lives -- should be to eliminate Israel.

The essence of the conflict is Israel's very right to exist -- not the question of borders, territories or refugees. Peace negotiations that do not address the PA's educational system and its indoctrination will be short-term paper agreements doomed to failure.

Palestinian children have already figured this out. Perhaps the rest of us need to stay after school.

Itamar Marcus, director of Palestinian Media Watch (PMW). Barbara Crook, a writer and university lecturer based in Ottawa, Canada, is PMW's North American representative.

[MMMMMM]

"That is why I suggest none of you read it. That information is better off destroyed. To each his own, but the more people that read about the Jewish exploitation of markets, the complete lack of Jewish contribution to culture, etc. etc. the more and more people will start to believe it. You tell any lie often enough and people believe it."

Well, I read the book about 5 years ago. Rather than causing me to empathize with Hitler's viewpoint, the reading had the reverse effect: it lowered my opinion of him even further.

[Gamblor]

Rather than causing me to empathize with Hitler's viewpoint, the reading had the reverse effect: it lowered my opinion of him even further.

Are you denying the existence of the phenomenon, or are you saying that the phenomenon simply didn't affect you?

[MMMMMM]

It didn't affect me in that manner.

Also, generally speaking, such things typically wield lesser influence with those who are informed and accustomed to critical thinking.

[spamuell]

Not even the most observant Jew or Christian takes anything the bible says literally.

This is just not true. There are many observant Jews who take everything that is said in the Torah (old testament) absolutely literally. I don't know about Christian's, but I assume that a Christian fundamentalist is one who takes everything in the bible literally.

The bible is built on the foundation of metaphor. Anyone who believes Christ walked on water is delusional, just like anyone who believes Moshe parted the Red Sea is the same.

You are probably correct. However, there are people who do believe both of these things, and to deny that this is the case (that there are people who believe it, not that it happened) is just wrong.

That is why I suggest none of you read it [mein kampf]. That information is better off destroyed. To each his own, but the more people that read about the Jewish exploitation of markets, the complete lack of Jewish contribution to culture, etc. etc. the more and more people will start to believe it. You tell any lie often enough and people believe it.

You suggest that no one should read Nazi propoganda, yet your last sentence is a direct quote of Goebbels! Furthermore, and this is somewhat more serious, you are actually advocating the burning (possibly not literally) of books! Do you not see how this is an exact parallel to when the Nazis burnt books written by Jewish authors in the 1930s? I'm not suggesting that this is going to lead you to mass murder, but the destruction of information for the reason that you don't agree with it is just not a viable solution to discrediting those you disagree with.

For instance, children interviewed on PA TV last week state clearly and without reservation that Israel has no right to exist, and that their goals for which they're willing to sacrifice their lives is Israel's destruction and the expulsion of all Israelis.

This is true that there are some Palestinian children who believe that Israel has no right to exist as a state, but this is not all Palestinian children by any means. There are also many Israeli children who believe that the Palestinians have no right to a state (don't tell me there aren't because I know many, and what is worrying is that they are involved in youth groups like Bnei Akiva which although are considered right wing, are not seen as extremist which is surely what this view is).

[Gamblor]

There are many observant Jews who take everything that is said in the Torah (old testament) absolutely literally.

That is why, for example, sacrifices continue today. No sir, you are misinformed - they follow the teachings of the Sages literally. And the Sages told them which parts of the Torah are to be taken literally and which are merely metaphors expressing a higher ethical standard.

However, there are people who do believe both of these things, and to deny that this is the case (that there are people who believe it, not that it happened) is just wrong.

Even the most Haredi Jews understand that God caused a natural phenomenon (i.e. severe winds) that caused the Red Sea to expose some its floor - a documented land bridge - in high winds.

It is one thing to believe that God helped the small guerilla Maccabean army defeat the Greek/Syrian army, it's another to interpret metaphor as fact.

You suggest that no one should read Nazi propoganda, yet your last sentence is a direct quote of Goebbels!

In the context of Goebbels' boasting that he could make anyone believe any lie, especially Hitler's. So yes, I purposefully (as I have before), quoted Goebbels.

That is why I suggest none of you read it [mein kampf].

Furthermore, and this is somewhat more serious, you are actually advocating the burning (possibly not literally) of books!

I merely made a suggestion. People are free to do whatever they want. I'm of the opinion that you should be fairly proficient in critical reading and quite knowledgeable about the facts of the Jewish community before reading it. What they do is not my business until it they make it my business.

There are also many Israeli children who believe that the Palestinians have no right to a state

As it stands right now, what right do they have? A state is not an abstract entity, it consists of institutions and shared responsibilities, for example, Education, Health Care, Security Forces, and Government.

What kind of state has a sickeningly corrupt government, security forces that amount to de facto terrorists (they only arrest Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists to consolidate Arafat's power), education system, and a health care system that forces Palestinians to drive to Israel for hospital care.

Sure, they want to be a state, they can call themselves a state. That doesn't mean the IDF won't go in to arrest terrorist suspects, and if you really understood the situation, you'd know that if the Palestinians were to declare a state today, after the civil war that's already brewing between Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad, they'd be in a whole lot bigger mess than they are now. For Israel to put its citizens in danger like amounts to suicide.

I've said it before - they'll never give up as long as there's any hope of Arab rule in what is now Israel.

[Gamblor]

There are many observant Jews who take everything that is said in the Torah (old testament) absolutely literally.

That is why, for example, sacrifices continue today. No sir, you are misinformed - they follow the teachings of the Sages literally. And the Sages told them which parts of the Torah are to be taken literally and which are merely metaphors expressing a higher ethical standard.

However, there are people who do believe both of these things, and to deny that this is the case (that there are people who believe it, not that it happened) is just wrong.

Even the most Haredi Jews understand that God caused a natural phenomenon (i.e. severe winds) that caused the Red Sea to expose some its floor - a documented land bridge - in high winds.

It is one thing to believe that God helped the small guerilla Maccabean army defeat the Greek/Syrian army, it's another to interpret metaphor as fact.

You suggest that no one should read Nazi propoganda, yet your last sentence is a direct quote of Goebbels!

In the context of Goebbels' boasting that he could make anyone believe any lie, especially Hitler's. So yes, I purposefully (as I have before), quoted Goebbels.

That is why I suggest none of you read it [mein kampf].

Furthermore, and this is somewhat more serious, you are actually advocating the burning (possibly not literally) of books!

I merely made a suggestion. People are free to do whatever they want. I'm of the opinion that you should be fairly proficient in critical reading and quite knowledgeable about the facts of the Jewish community before reading it. What they do is not my business until it they make it my business.

There are also many Israeli children who believe that the Palestinians have no right to a state

As it stands right now, what right do they have? A state is not an abstract entity, it consists of institutions and shared responsibilities, for example, Education, Health Care, Security Forces, and Government.

What kind of state has a sickeningly corrupt government, security forces that amount to de facto terrorists (they only arrest Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists to consolidate Arafat's power), Shahada- based (martyrdom) education system, and a health care system that forces Palestinians to drive to Israel for hospital care.

Sure, they want to be a state, they can call themselves a state. That doesn't mean the IDF won't go in to arrest terrorist suspects, and if you really understood the situation, you'd know that if the Palestinians were to declare a state today, after the civil war that's already brewing between Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad, they'd be in a whole lot bigger mess than they are now. For Israel to put its citizens in danger like amounts to suicide.

I've said it before - they'll never give up as long as there's any hope of Arab rule in what is now Israel.

B'nei Akiva's as extremist? What violence have they participated in? All they want is to be able to visit sites like Joseph's tomb in Nablus (Neapolis, for the Latin in you, and Sh'chem for the Hebrew in you) and the Ma'arat (cave, i think) Hamachpela in Hevron, two of Judaism's holiest sites. They really don't care about the Palestinians either way. But they can't visit without IDF protection unless they feel like getting picked off by snipers. On the other hand, how many B'nei Akiva members have murdered Palestinians walking on the street?

[Cyndie]

So you are saying that dried pork with trichanosis, is not dangerous? and that none of the other dietary laws had any basis in healthy living..like shellfish and crustaceans? I am surprised. I do not doubt your comments that the "reason" for the kosher rules is spiritual and not believed to be utilitarian...I just tend to believe that the "effect" would be different from the stated purpose.