The Failure Of Logic

[David Sklansky]

I have actually written about this subject. My point was that the criminal justice system should never be set up in such a way where it would never logically reward someone for committing a crime. Kidnappers who freed their victims should get a lighter sentence then those who didn't. Murderers who killed a second time should be tortured.

Most people who argue against "logic" misunderstand the definition of the word.

[chezlaw]

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Murderers who killed a second time should be tortured.

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and what if they kill a third time, or kill twice and then steal a candy bar.

This says a lot about your moral values but please don't blame logic.

chez

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is this:
in the case of religion, you hear conflicting statements and conclude that "it's just a guess".

If you're on a jury, you use your MIND to sift and weigh the evidence for yourself. If possible, you research, you read, you call expert witnesses; in short-- you look hard for an answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I used to be a Mormon. I discovered internal contradictions that led to my loss of faith in that. For a time, I was emotionally lost without something that had been very important to me, and I tried hard to find a faith to replace it. But when I used my MIND, as you suggest, I discovered that all the religions I researched had the same problems as my starting point and I reached the conclusion I mentioned earlier. The only way to accept any faith of which I am aware (quite a few) is to turn a blind eye toward the flaws or rationalize them away, while nitpicking those same flaws apparent in other faiths. It cracks me up to hear an adherent of one religion expressing astonishment at the gullibility of adherents of another.


[ QUOTE ]
You then decide based on the preponderance of the evidence.

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FYI, that's good enough for a civil trial, but not for a criminal trial. If a juror can't eliminate any reasonable doubt, he/she is supposed to vote "not guilty".


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If a man's life is at stake, you don't toss a coin and go whistling off to lunch..because you CARE. You care about the truth, you care about the accused, you care about the victim, and you care about how the outcome will affect society as a whole.

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Quite right.


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How much effort would you make if the man in the dock were you?

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It wouldn't be my place to make that effort; it would be the jury's.

-Mike

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
is this a murder case or a robbery and self defense case?
for some reason im under the impression homeowners dont have the right to simply shoot burglars just because they broke into a house, they must make efforts to avoid the burglar and use deadly force only if their lives are in danger, deadly force is not accpetable to protect property. the way the court systems seem to be these days, i would think he would be ok to just leave without killing any more people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that would be 1st degree murder since it was commited during the course of another felony. Sorry NO self defense there, that is totally ludicrous .

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is this a murder case or a robbery and self defense case?
for some reason im under the impression homeowners dont have the right to simply shoot burglars just because they broke into a house, they must make efforts to avoid the burglar and use deadly force only if their lives are in danger, deadly force is not accpetable to protect property. the way the court systems seem to be these days, i would think he would be ok to just leave without killing any more people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that would be 1st degree murder since it was commited during the course of another felony. Sorry NO self defense there, that is totally ludicrous .

[/ QUOTE ]
hmm, im pretty sure it is not 1st degree murder as it doesnt meet the criteria. any lawyers in the house?

[CarlSpackler]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'll play one here. This would definitely not be 1st degree murder. There must be proven premeditation with intent to kill in order for one to be charged with 1st degree murder.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is this a murder case or a robbery and self defense case?
for some reason im under the impression homeowners dont have the right to simply shoot burglars just because they broke into a house, they must make efforts to avoid the burglar and use deadly force only if their lives are in danger, deadly force is not accpetable to protect property. the way the court systems seem to be these days, i would think he would be ok to just leave without killing any more people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that would be 1st degree murder since it was commited during the course of another felony. Sorry NO self defense there, that is totally ludicrous .

[/ QUOTE ]
hmm, im pretty sure it is not 1st degree murder as it doesnt meet the criteria. any lawyers in the house?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's felony murder by the burglar since the homeowner was killed during the burglary, and burglary is a felony.

The original post stipulated that felony murder was punishable by death.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a lawyer, but I'll play one here. This would definitely not be 1st degree murder. There must be proven premeditation with intent to kill in order for one to be charged with 1st degree murder.

[/ QUOTE ]
It would be first degree murder in California:

Cal Pen Code § 189: All murder which is perpetrated by means of a destructive device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison, lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or which is committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery, burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable under Section 206, 286, 288, 288a, or 289, or any murder which is perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle, intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree. All other kinds of murders are of the second degree.

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is this a murder case or a robbery and self defense case?
for some reason im under the impression homeowners dont have the right to simply shoot burglars just because they broke into a house, they must make efforts to avoid the burglar and use deadly force only if their lives are in danger, deadly force is not accpetable to protect property. the way the court systems seem to be these days, i would think he would be ok to just leave without killing any more people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am pretty sure that would be 1st degree murder since it was commited during the course of another felony. Sorry NO self defense there, that is totally ludicrous .

[/ QUOTE ]
hmm, im pretty sure it is not 1st degree murder as it doesnt meet the criteria. any lawyers in the house?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's felony murder by the burglar since the homeowner was killed during the burglary.

The original post stipulated that felony murder was punishable by death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it is a felony murder and since it is punishable by death that would be put in the same caterory of 1st degree murder, a capital crime.

[kalooki45]

Mike, you have my apologies.
I assumed from the tone of your post that you simply hadn't bothered to investigate anything for yourself.
I am deeply sorry for what you must have gone through.
Please forgive me.

*If it's any consolation (and it probably won't be) Mormonism is viewed by mainstream Christianity as a cult. They run wonderful TV and magazine ads, and the surface presentation is identical in most respects to any other church, but beneath the surface lies a real welter of serious error, and some very strange beliefs that have no foundation in scripture.

To read more: web page Watchman Fellowship
web pageMacGregor Ministries