One limper, TT on the button with 18BBs...

[durron597]

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The fish will call more often than you think.

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This really isn't true on Stars or PokerRoom. But I could see it being true on Party...

[45suited]

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Ok, TT is a "marginal hand"

vs 66+, AJo+ it (TT) is 53% favorite (JJ is 58% FWIW). If you're called you are a coin flip at best w/ TT.

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TT is marginal against one limper and the blinds? I think you're really undervaluing the strength of TT here.

Moreover, the scenarios regarding TT vs overpairs is almost irrelevant, since I'm either going broke or getting crippled in the unlikely event that one of my 3 opponents has an overpair anyway.

Oftentimes, the guy that open limped with the small PP here (or one of the blinds) will smell the weakness of my "obvious" bluff here and call my push. Or the limper will get married to his suited ace and call.

Admit it, if you (or anyone, I'm not insulting you by saying this) was sitting there with 66 or 77, you'd be thinking that you had the best hand and I was just stealing. You'd probably have the restraint to lay it down, but alot of players won't, especially at the lower levels.

And the 125 chips do have some value by the way. If I didn't think that there was a good chance of being called (and this is read dependent of course based upon the looseness of my opponents thus far) I probably wouldn't push. But still, pushing would not be terrible.

Look at it this way: I don't understand why the continuation bet on a whiffed AK flop is so popular (when you may well no longer have the best hand), but you'd be afraid of pushing TT pre-flop 4 handed because you're afraid that you might not have the best hand. That's the least of my worries - the only thing I'm worried about is not getting called. And if I don't, well, I added 14% to my stack.

[GtrHtr]

I understand your point. I just think we disagree about the risk vs reward value of this play.

GTR

[RaiNz]

I should also add that the argument that "AK might call me" is one that I also don't get. I'll take TT vs AK any day of the week, especially in this spot of the game where I need to start accumulating chips.

You don't get it because you probably failed to read the last line. I said if called you were probably dominated by a higher PP, or slightly better than a coinflip. Ofcourse we should not be afraid of AK here. Of the hands that call you AK is the only one that you are ahead of.

Sure a complete donk might call you with whatever weak hand because it's his favorite hand. It is hard to believe that you get called 70% of the time.

[45suited]

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Sure a complete donk might call you with whatever weak hand because it's his favorite hand. It is hard to believe that you get called 70% of the time

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Yeah, after thinking about it some more, 70% was definitely a bit high... it's probably closer to 50%. Still a good play though IMO, especially against loose opponents.

And I think that you're still missing the point that there is no reason to fear a higher PP, since with my stack, I'm either going broke or getting severely crippled against a higher PP here even if I make a standard 3xBB + l limper raise for 1/4 of my stack pre-flop.

Pushing pre-flop against loose, bad opponents here (which the 11s and 22s are filled with) entices them to call me with hands that I am either dominating or on the + side of a coinflip pre-flop.

[curtains]

I think moving allin is reasonable. Whether its my preferred play or not is another question, but ok I think raising is better than limping for sure.